Garry

I was mislead by its price.... In my view, something so cheap can not have good homing system and good radar. Now I understand what was different here... its missiles 57Э6-Е are derivaties of Igla... but WITHOUT homing, they are GUIDED by a radar/optic/IR of the launching machine. Instead of heavy and expensive homing they added fuel giving it slightly longer range....

Are those missiles of Pantsir-1C jammable? I mean, the launcher itself can use IR/Optic for search and tracking.... but how about jamming Launcher-missile channels?

ps. In Russian forums they posted video where Patsir-1C shoots down shells from BM-21 Grad....

GGTharos

The missiles are cheap because they're beam riders, and they carry a new fuze which can deal with missiles (the Tunguska missile has a pretty bad fuze in that respect - in fact you can expect it to NOT intercept a missile)


Again, IIRC the missile is a beam rider. That does mean that aircraft pulling high g's will be hard to hit, but on the other hand, you can't jam the missile. Period. You might be able to confuse the IR tracker but it's not as likely as confusing a missile IMHO, given that you have space for a LOT more processing power in there.

Garry

is that possible to JAM the beam which guides the missile? I am not really familiar with jamming so I assumed that is easily possible. Why not?

as for aircraft with high G avoiding missile - they shoot two per target and each is guided with a separate channels. Avoiding one is possible but two would be harder. I guess aircraft would try to knock down Pantsir before comming into its range..... this means loss of time and defending of the main object. Pantsir is cheap to lose.....

I read yesterday that intercepting shell from BM-21 is quite easy as its trajectory NEVER changes and easy to calculate...... same for bombs. So their only chance was their small size.... but for modern radars the size of the bomb/shell is too big to be not noticed.

GGTharos

Hm, well, I'll be more precice: You can jam it, but the missile sensors are in the rear of the missile - so you'd have to be jamming from somewhere near the launcher. That's why in practice it isn't possible to jam. Assuming I remember that missile's functioning correctly.

Doesn't matter; it's a function of the guidance type, unless the laser channel is independanlty steerable from the tracking sensor, in which case you can have the missile perform lead/proportional type guidance. It is still vulnerable to out-of-plane maneuvers though ... beam riders basically are more susceptible to overshoots but you can probably get around this.

You may as well toss weapons from outside its range, or outside its Turn and Run range.

It's not quite so easy - it is their small size that makes them harder to intercept. Guns will have trouble hitting it for obvious reasons of dispersions etc (although you can pretty much guarantee a hit, but at large expense in ammunition) and missiles have fuze issues (the pore modern the missile, the better it will deal with it typically)

GGTharos

Errr, I just realized, I think you don't know how beam-riding works.

So, here's the deal - you create a 'beam' be it a radar, laser, or whatever - and the missile then has sensors in the rear to pick up where it is with respect to the beam, and tries to center itself within it. Where you point the beam, the missile goes. Some caveats are - missile might lose the beam if it reflects improperly off of say, water, or if the beam is steered too quickly and the missile can't keep up with the turn.

A similar guidance is SACLOS, but all the sensors are onboard the launcher, which sends steering commands to the missile directly (ie. the missile does not do any sensing or processing whatsoever). Similar type flight path, different ways of implementing it.

Garry

Thanks GGTharos! It was educative!