Bluesman

Whatever was done, it works. Got the brief from the 'threats' expert personally. Not sure what parts get changed out, or any tech details. But that Russian gun can be made to fire Yank ammo. Truth.

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braindead

about the six ´stolen´ mig-29 - some time ago i read something about US goverment buying 6 mig-29 from Moldavia , so they would not fall to hands of iran (?) - they were shipped to us in a c-17 , migs were a mix of Fulcrum A plus some Fulcrum C (nuclear-capable)

bfng3569

it wasnt all that long a go (a year or two) i remember seeing it somewhere

Shipwreck

The Czechs actually redesigned the GSh-23 to chamber the 20 x 102mm, so there's no doubt that it can be done.

It's nevertheless not a trivial mod. and I don't quite see what benefits would make it worth in the specific context you mentioned, given that sourcing 23 x 115mm never was much of a problem.

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Bluesman

I don't know, but perhaps the Soviet General Staff 'procurements' guy thought sourcing MIGHT be a problem waaaaay over there in far western West Germany, with the FEBA headed inexorably even farther west, waaaaay far away from your depots in Poland. In that case, busting the lock off the Yank ammo bunker and loading the gun with captured ammo seems purty dam' smart, because notice all the stuff I just mentioned are CONSUMABLES: fuel, ammo, oxygen, power, tires, drag chutes. You either have to keep it coming over clogged, bombed roads and bridges, or you have to fly it in almost up to the FEBA and those big, fat, loaded transports won't have fighter cover...because the Floggers are grounded, waiting for what the Candids are trying to bring in. An Eagle Feast. All of a sudden, your capture of that forward airfield did not do you very much offensive good, tovarich.

Shipwreck

This assumes that switching from 23 x 115mm to 20 x 102mm would be a mere field mod., and a relatively fast/easy one to implement for that matter, which clearly isn't the case.

Moreover, 20 x 102mm ammos in USAF service were (and still are) electric-primed, whereas the GSh-23 was designed for percussion-primed 23 x 115mm ammos.

The Czech ZPL-20 (i.e. the GSh-23 redesigned to chamber the 20 x 102mm) was developped after the collapse of WP and cannot use 23 x 115mm ammos.

Besides, I was really looking at it from a US POV when I mentioned that sourcing 23 x 115mm never was much of a problem.

avon1944

It is true and it is one of the CIA's real good coups of the Cold War. The History Channel did a program about the CIA, and they interviewed one of the CIA participants in this incident to verify it.
They implied Hungry or Poland was the final destination of the MiG-21. The shipment was 'accidently' unloaded from the train at the wrong terminal and the paper work lost!
The Israelis have had an intact MiG-21F-13 in their hands, flown in by a defecting Iraqi pilot, in 1966. Israel's 1967 and 1973 provided the USA with a lot of Soviet hardware including many MiG.-21's, SA-2's and ZSU-23-4's.

As far back as 1996's annual issue of Janes Book of Aircraft (Pg 425 Col. #2), publish the reality that the USAF was a proud owner of two Su-27's purchased by a private firm (a CIA front company?) and they were delievered them to an area that was 'sandy' (Nellis or Groom Lake facilities?) by a An-124. Further investigation revealled the shipping date was Nov. 27, 1995.
Also noted in the article was that the Japanese Defense Forces were reported to be interested in acquiring two Su-27 aircraft as "aggressors" but was unable to do so because Sukhoi was unwilling to sell fewer than six aircraft.

So if you only read the New York or London Times front page then go to the sports section then, this is news!

Adrian

glyn

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highsea

It was 21 frames from Moldova, not 6. Also 500+ AAM's in that deal. But that was in 1997, long after the USSR had imploded.

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Garry

There was one MiG-29 which was stolen to Turkey.... but Turks returned it in 4 days... probably someone needed four days to study that MiG. It was carried home by transport aircraft. The pilot got US citizentship..... he got crashed in US many years later

gf0012-aust

all 21 have been "retired" btw. At least one is a gate guard according to a USAF reservist I know who is a TAC intel planner for ME SAM defences. It sits outside his office.

gf0012-aust

There are no doubt a few more. eg one of the Mig 21's only appeared on the asset list recently - and thats because it suddenly appeared trucked up for the Smithsonian sans Edwards.

not all red flag aircraft are listed.

avon1944

You are so correct but, I accept the word of people being interviewed as being knowledgable. I am not talking about a "sound bite" rather when the person being interviewed talks for thirty seconds or more. Enough to get out a complete idea said calmly.
Anything said by an announcer has ZERO credibilty to me.

Adrian

MiGuel

MiGs in Nevada:
Nearly two years ago a gentleman in the Department of Defense told me verbally that there are MiG-25s at Nellis and that he called Nellis to see if I could have a ride in one. (He told me they said "no".) This is not proof that they are there, but it is evidence that they are there. If there are MiG-25s at Nellis then there are undoubtedly 23s and 21s and maybe even 19s (the most distrusted of the MiGs by Russian pilots ) and, of course MiG-29s since we bought some. I am assuming that what he told me is not classified although at the time I was able to find only EXTREMELY scanty information on the internet to verify. If it happens to be classified information then I am fabricating everything I say from some delusional fantasy.
MiGuel

Jimmy

Nellis AFB has the Threat Training Facility, which has a number of static displays of Soviet and other adversary systems, including a MiG-23 and a MiG-29, as well as a bunch of older stuff.

My guess is that nothing would make it into a static display if there was ANYTHING left that we could learn from keeping it operational.