Stan187

"Heard"? I'm sorry tovarish that's just not good enough. I heard Bud Light is really the most highly caloric beer and its not really "light". I also heard this from a bum on the street, which means credibility is a bit lacking.

That's why articles and books have citations and bibliographys. Otherwise its just meaningless babble or opinion. But you're not trying to state an opinion, you're trying to establish "fact". Sorry comrade, I'm not convinced.

tim52

You are correct, however it sems the program remained in place for a number of years after and in 1996 a North Korean defector flew a MIG-19 into South Korea.

BTW where in Melbourne do you live, I lived in St. Kilda for 7 years and recently sold my flat there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_defectors

__________________
Buy the ticket, take the ride.

Ruskiy

Yes, and USSR didn't wanted to be seen as guys who couldn't save tehir MiGs in front of all teh world.

__________________
Наша жизнь как пианино: белая клавиша, черная клавиша и крышка

GGTharos

Interesting. Then perhaps USSR hasn't produced anything that can compete with USAF's planes since they can't even guard their most advanced plane from theft right off their bases.

I wonder how those MiG-29's flew out of Russian airspace without being lost to SAMs, other MiG-29's, and so on and so forth - and I wonder what kinda pilots the USAF had that had training to operate MiG-29's ...

In other words, I call BS on your story.

-{SpoonmaN}-

Kensington, its got this really strange crossover, since heaps of Muslims from East Africa live in my neighbourhood, while on the other hand heaps of gay couples do as well.
All part of the melting pot I guess. St Kilda is nice, not over that way much myself, my school was area-based so pretty much everyone I know lives in the North or the West.

__________________
"I have this to say to the people of Australia: Kick me, I'm different."

Stan187

It's not even a story... stories mix in real and non-real elements.

bfng3569

i remember reading a story from the cold war era, were the US had managed to get a russian aircraft (fihgter) that was being shipped (by rail i beleive, in crates) somewhere in eastern urope, and they 'arranged' for it to disapear for awhile.

they had assembled it, tested it, flew it, then disassemlbed and re-crated it returned it on its original route

glyn

__________________
Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.

Bluesman

I sat in a MiG-21 and a MiG-23 when I was in Okinawa. The fighter wing had an entire building - completely secret, so the Japanese wouldn't have to answer awkward questions, since de-classified - devoted to The Threat. It was called the Tactical Preparedness Center, and it had SAMs, a ZSU-23/4, three MiGs and a tape and book library that I still have daydreams about. Gun camera film, pilot de-briefs from Vietnam and the Six-Day War, books on tactics and doctrine, adversary systems manuals...you name it, they had it.

I remember the 'curator', one of the senior Eagle drivers and a flight lead, a high-time light colonel that was never going to make full bird, taking me through there on a Saturday, and we ate our breakfast, lunch and dinner before we were through. I can't thank that guy enough for giving a two-striper nugget like me such attention.

One of the high points: the MiG-23 walk-around and familiarization. Do you guys know:
The Flogger's 23mm double-barrelled gun system can accomodate American 20mm ammo, with a barrel sleeve and a breech adapter?
...that is can use JP-4 fuel?
...that it's main gear tires and wheels can be interchanged with a Phantom's?
...that it's drag chute can be, also?
...that it can hook up to an American start cart?
...that it can use American oxygen canisters?
...and that Frontal Aviation ground crews trained on replica American aircraft generation equipment, tools, and various Yank stuff, so that when Bitburg and Ramstein and Spangdahlem and Hahn and all the other 'long concrete' got over-run by commie tanks, they could fly in a couple of regiment's worth of Floggers, and be right behind the still-rollin' spearhead.

That aircraft was designed from the beginning as an offensive weapon.

__________________
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell

Stan187

That's really interesting, the same logic is being used in the SCAR model that takes 7.62x39 rounds and AK mags.

Bluesman

One of the Iraqi MiG-29s that was lost in a Class A (total aircraft loss and/or crew fatality) mishap was a defection attempt. Just over the Saudi border, homey encountered some sandy cumulus.

Too bad; would've been terrific anti-Saddam propaganda, and we'd have some GREAT intel on his MiG-29s, pilot status, codes, TTPs, LOTS of stuff.

But my man couldn't keep from high-speed controlled flight into terrain.

Bummer.

Shipwreck

I don't think a breech adapter would work, since the 20 x 102mm cartridge has a body diameter of ~29mm, versus ~27mm for the 23 x 115mm cartridge.

__________________
"Venceréis, pero no convenceréis" (Miguel de Unamuno)
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God" (Matthew 5:9)

troung

Indonesia which post 1965 joined with the USA had MiG-21F-13s, MiG-19s, MiG-17Fs, Tu-16B/Ks and IL-28s. Those planes post 1965 rapidly left service as the new regime had little faith in the air force and spares while not cut off had to be paid for in cash.

__________________
To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

texasjohn

Question for you guy. Is there any truth to the "urban legend" that India " loaned" the US some HAL built Migs (21, 23,27, 29) for analysis / dissimilar air combat training? The new Mig-21 Bisons that tha IAF flies has hardly any of the original Russian avionics from what I have been led to believe. They are all Israeli and other components. I find it hard to believe the US would allow this level of integration ( since it is mostly US tech) without getting something in return.

Bluesman

I have no dope on that at all, mate.