A10 vs SU-25

**jlvfr** · 05 Nov 08, 15:32

Just a small reminder, folks: you are all talking about cannon and very little about the other "stuff": both can carry a huge bomb/missile load; by the time they actually use the cannon, there won't be much left anyway...

Both have massive armour, structural reinforcement and redundancy. The A-10s toughness is legendary, but I recently saw (here, I think?) a pick of an SU-25 that got hit close to an engine exahust, loosing a huge chunk of that area... and it still managed to return home.

The A-10 has far better all-around vision, but this can be argued to have come at the cost of putting the pilot's back out of the titanium "tub"...

But the A-10s main winning point his it's electronics: currently, the A-10 wins hands down any in-service version of the SU-25 (altough there are some prototypes that...); this not only allows the A-10 to fly by night with no problems, but also allows it to carry a vast array of guided munitions;

**Kommunist** · 07 Nov 08, 11:57

The A-10 has non-afterburning twin GE TF34-GE-100 turbofan engines, which are positioned in such a way so as to minimise ground fire hits. So, the Warthog is not capable of supersonic flight.

The Su-25 Frogfooot on the other hand has twin R-195 (MiG-21 variant) engine and this makes the plane capable of Mach1+ flight.

Other than that, both planes have superb low speed handling and great
armour protection.

But I feel that the A-10 has an advantage due to the American cutting edge avionics and better maintenance and upgradation of the fleet. The Su-25s in RuAF service havent received any major upgrades since 1989.

Also, Su-25 Laser designator doesn't work in foggy/cloudy weather conditions

(as the Russians found out in Chechnya). So it has to go lower if it wants to designate targets itslef, making it vulnerable to MANPADs.

**~~Shipwreck~~** · 07 Nov 08, 12:08

Originally Posted by Kommunist

The Su-25s in RuAF service havent received any major upgrades since 1989.

I think NOT :

First upgraded Su-25SM attack aircraft handed over to the Russian Air Force
Released on Thursday, December 28, 2006

The Russian Air Force has taken delivery of the first six upgraded production Su-25SM attack aircraft at a handover ceremony taking place today at Aircraft Repair Plant #121 in Kubinka, near. The ceremony was attended by Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Air Force General of Army Vladimir Mikhailov, who said that the Air Force would receive no less than six upgraded production Su-25SMs in 2007. "No less than six operational Su-25s will undergo production upgrading in 2007 and another eight in he said. According to him, a total of two air regiments will be equipped with upgraded Su-25SMs in the coming years.

In his words following the upgrade, "these aircraft, which are currently 17-18 years old, will be able to remain in service for another 30 years or more."

He believes the upgraded Su-25SM attack aircraft has reached 4+ generation aircraft capabilities. "As a result of the upgrade, we've received a 4+ generation aircraft able to handle 3.5 times more missions than the basic Su- said the commander-in-chief. Particularly, the attack aircraft has now acquired the capability to carry the medium-range R-73 missile with a range of up to.

Mikhailov added that the Su-25SM would be first handed over to the Air Force Pilot Training / in. "There, our best training specialists will 'teach' these aircraft fighting and learn their employment procedures for various engagement conditions," he said. "Then all the six planes will be handed over to a permanent readiness regiment deployed in Budennovsk."

Link

**Kommunist** · 07 Nov 08, 12:21

Originally Posted by Shipwreck

I think NOT :

Point taken, but from what I gather from Wiki (Su-25):

"Today, Russia possesses a reduced fleet of Su-25s, which are operated by "Shturmovoi" Assault Regiments. The major variants used are the single-seat Su-25, the twin-seat Su-25UB, and the Su-25BM target-towing version. In addition, the Russian Air Force received a small number of Su-25T anti-tank variants, which have been tested with notable success under combat conditions in Chechnya. The Su-25 is also operated by the Russian Navy, both in standard land-based Su-25 and Su-25UB guise, as well as in the specialised Su-25UTG role as a carrier-operable trainer. Overall, 245 Su-25s are in service with the Russian Air Force, including 10 being operated by the navy as of 2008. A modernisation program of single-seat Su-25s to the Su-25SM variant is underway.The first modernised Su-25SM was delivered in August 2001, while another six were delivered in late December 2006 at Lipetsk air base."

I would hardly call 6 out 200+ aircraft a fleet/major/comprehensive upgrade.
Has anyone watched the documentary "Discovery: Wings of the Red Star-Su 25

**~~Shipwreck~~** · 07 Nov 08, 22:16

Originally Posted by jlvfr

by the time they actually use the cannon, there won't be much left anyway...

Watch this :

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=59c_1226013948

**Repatriated Canuck** · 08 Nov 08, 05:27

What a great video!! Thanks.

**GGTharos** · 08 Nov 08, 15:30

Originally Posted by Kommunist

The A-10 has non-afterburning twin GE TF34-GE-100 turbofan engines, which are positioned in such a way so as to minimise ground fire hits. So, the Warthog is not capable of supersonic flight.

Nevermind the engines, it isn't aerodynamically built for it.

The Su-25 Frogfooot on the other hand has twin R-195 (MiG-21 variant) engine and this makes the plane capable of Mach1+ flight.

... and again, nevermind the engines, it isn't aerodynamically built for it. If you approach the mach in a Su-25 you will experience compression effects and lose control.

The Su-25 IS faster and has more energy than the A-10.

Other than that, both planes have superb low speed handling and great armour protection.

Slow speed handling goes to the A-10 here.

**~~Shipwreck~~** · 08 Nov 08, 19:58

Originally Posted by GGTharos

Slow speed handling goes to the A-10 here.

How do you back this claim ?

**Stitch** · 08 Nov 08, 22:40

Originally Posted by Shipwreck

How do you back this claim ?

I don't have any hard-and-fast figures at my disposal, but one look at the wings will tell you the A-10 was designed with maneuverability in mind (right down to the downward-turned wingtips); the Su-25 wing looks like it was designed with efficient cruising in mind (slightly swept leading edge, relatively high aspect-ratio vs low aspect-ratio A-10 wing). The A-10 wing also incorporates high-lift devices, such as leading edge slats and Fowler-type flaps; I see no problem with the A-10 turning inside an Su-25 at comparable speeds.

**GGTharos** · 09 Nov 08, 01:59

^^^^

Exactly. It's a huge, long straight wing with low wing loading. It is is the -staple- of gliders, though is slightly different proportions

The Su-25 and A-10 both have similar turn rates, but the A-10 will pull a tighter turn radius, so it likes one-circles and flat scissors against a Su-25.

**~~Shipwreck~~** · 09 Nov 08, 11:06

Originally Posted by GGTharos

The Su-25 and A-10 both have similar turn rates, but the A-10 will pull a tighter turn radius

Source ?

**GGTharos** · 09 Nov 08, 15:25

Compared numbers from the A-10 -1 with someone who had their hands on the Su-25K flight manual.

**~~Shipwreck~~** · 09 Nov 08, 15:40

Originally Posted by GGTharos

Compared numbers from the A-10 -1 with someone who had their hands on the Su-25K flight manual.

What are the numbers then ?

**Kommunist** · 12 Nov 08, 07:23

How far a pilot will be able to push his craft during need/actual combat is upto the pilot and the plane (other than airspeed, altitude, armament carried, fuel load) and not what is written in the manual.
Manuals define basic figures and safe limits not real limits.
(MiG29 data puts its max g-capabilty at 12g, but it is said that it is able to do more g's but risks damage to airframe. However, since 12g is way beyond what a human pilot can handle, so we are not in a position to verify this)

**~~usplanefan67~~** · 12 Nov 08, 10:03

Quote:
First upgraded Su-25SM attack aircraft handed over to the Russian Air Force
Released on Thursday, December 28, 2006

The Russian Air Force has taken delivery of the first six upgraded production Su-25SM attack aircraft at a handover ceremony taking place today at Aircraft Repair Plant #121 in Kubinka, near. The ceremony was attended by Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Air Force General of Army Vladimir Mikhailov, who said that the Air Force would receive no less than six upgraded production Su-25SMs in 2007. "No less than six operational Su-25s will undergo production upgrading in 2007 and another eight in he said. According to him, a total of two air regiments will be equipped with upgraded Su-25SMs in the coming years.

In his words following the upgrade, "these aircraft, which are currently 17-18 years old, will be able to remain in service for another 30 years or more."

He believes the upgraded Su-25SM attack aircraft has reached 4+ generation aircraft capabilities. "As a result of the upgrade, we've received a 4+ generation aircraft able to handle 3.5 times more missions than the basic Su- said the commander-in-chief. Particularly, the attack aircraft has now acquired the capability to carry the medium-range R-73 missile with a range of up to.

Mikhailov added that the Su-25SM would be first handed over to the Air Force Pilot Training / in. "There, our best training specialists will 'teach' these aircraft fighting and learn their employment procedures for various engagement conditions," he said. "Then all the six planes will be handed over to a permanent readiness regiment deployed in Budennovsk."

Link

Shipwreck you can polish a turd and it still will be a turd!!!! A-10 hands down!!!

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