Anon

Oh, i'm sure the pay is really good.

barrowaj

At the Rosebowl I think the flyover was of a flight of F-22s. Maybe it was another football game, but I thought it was the Rosebowl.

Which planes flew over the Superbowl? F-15s IIRC, right?

I remember a B-2 also from some college bowl game.

At least they are choosing cool fighters to fly over, regardless of what it costs. Nobody wants to see some wussy T-38s

Anyway, the Su-27 series is a quite impressive aircraft. Especially the the Su-35 and 37. Airshow videos are awesome! However, it doesn't hold a candle to the F-22 in BVR or medium range air combat (not even the way over-hyped Su-30MKI Punjabi edition..). But if a full scale war broke out we wouldn't have too many F-22s to throw into the fray, and JSFs would have to bear the brunt.

Historically though, Russian aircraft have great on paper and airshow performance, but they are usually lacking in the avionics category (especially RWRs and radars). In my opinion, this is what matters more in the modern age of air combat, so unless there is a close in gunzo or heaters fight, ad. is to the Americans, even in situations of numerical inferiority.

Anon

2 F-22s and 2 F-15Cs overflew the superbowl.

Then my team lost by a fieldgoal in the closest Superbowl ever played.

Still was a great game though.

Blademaster

The game wasn't even that close. The closest game was the Giants against the Buffaloes.

I was wondering like hell, why the ****, didn't McNabb hurry the **** up? Clock is running out.

Though it was a good game. I sat down to some New England Patriots fans at the game. We bantered back and forth and played good natured insults against each other. I'll say for one thing. New England fans are a classy act.

Oh yeah by the way, I saw those 2 raptors flying over my head.


As for the official NFL tailgate party, it sucked. It sucked big time. They should allow personal tailgate parties at the Super Bowl. They need to figure out a way to improve security without prohibiting personal tailgate parties. Tailgate parties are part of the great tradition of football.

Anon

"The game wasn't even that close. The closest game was the Giants against the Buffaloes."

Umm, it was the first Superbowl in history that was tie after 3 quarters...making it the closest SB in history.

"I was wondering like hell, why the ****, didn't McNabb hurry the **** up? Clock is running out."

He was sick, and throwing up in the huddle between plays.

Enzo Ferrari

What a retard!

Any Su-37, Su-47 amd MiG 1.44 "invisible" from radar, hitting the target without detected?

avon1944

> MrSnow
> Thats not a cobra manuver
The maneuver is called the "helicopter!" The ability to fly a circular pattern, around a center point. In this case it is being used to point the nose at an aircraft that is in a "flat spin." This ability to point the nose at an angle that is different than the course of the aircraft's flight allows a fighter to fly at approximately the same altitude as the helicopter fire its guns as the helo tries evasive maneuvers along the horizontal plane. This maneuver was first done by the F-16 AFTI.
As far as the F-22 doing the "cobra" it can do any of the "post stall loops," the class of maneuvers the cobra is part of.
The F-22 can perform many maneuvers no other aircraft can perform;
1) Fly at Mach 1.2 with the course and heading being different by 25º! This will allow it to turn so the launch and ignition of a missile will be covered by the fuselage.

2) Fly at 50,000 feet, Mach 1.4, nose pitched up at 25º..... this attitude covers up all the hot spots caused by air friction and exaust from below. The only way to detect the hotspot is from behind.
The leading edges are designed not to be hot spots, all leading edges are airfoils of one type or another. They are all designed so the hotspots are back from the leading edge and on one side of the airfoil.

3) To rotate at 60º per/sec, pull 6G's and fire a missile!!

4) Supercruising at Mach 1.7 and 50,000 feet.

5) Extensive test has produced an aircraft that will not depart from flight.

6) he F-22's Common Integrated Processor main mission computers operate at 10.5 GHtz and have 300 megabytes (not bits) of memory. Liquid flow-through cooling improves reliability, lending to an mean time between failures (MTBF).

7) The F-22 and its APG-77 radar will also be able to employ better Non-Cooperative Target Recognition (NCTR). This is accomplished by forming fine beams and by generating a high resolution image of the target by using Inverse Synthetic Aperture radar (ISAR) processing. ISAR uses Doppler shifts caused by rotational changes in the targets position to create a 3D map of the target. The target provides the Doppler shift and not the aircraft illuminating the target. SAR is when the aircraft provides the Doppler shift. The pilot can compare the target with an actual picture radar image stored in the F-22's data base.

8) The software that provides the avionics system's full functionality is composed of approximately 1.7 million lines of code. Ninety percent of the software is written in Ada.

9) The F-22's AN/APG-77 radar can scan in one second a volumn of space that would take the AN/APG-70 fourteen seconds to do the same.

10) The EW aperture locations provide all-aspect coverage, and the system includes a missile launch detection capability.

[Source -USNI Database;
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...-avionics.htm]

All these features and maneuvers that only the F-22 can do plus, these these are legitimate combat maneuvers for high speed combat.

The F-22 can hit Mach 2.0 in supercruise but it can not sustain it. The wing skin is made of a material named "bismaleimide" (BMI). The heat of air friction exceeds what the BMI can handle and not be damaged. The USAF gave up Mach 0.2 in top speed and 0.1 in cruise speed because BMI is a better material than the material it replaced and it is far cheaper to make and manufacture.


> M21Sniper
> The upper speed limit for 5G maneuver: Mach 1.3, Sea-level to
> Mach 2.0, 50,000 fts (with A/B thrust)
Max Q is Mach 1.1 at 17,000 at 7G's
SOURCE -Aviation Week & Space Technology Magazine September 6, 1999

Adrian

Dima

does anyone know the RCS of the F-22 btw, i heard it was something like 0.001 square metres, or 0.01 square metres?

which one

__________________
for MOTHER MOLDOVA

uss

Hi Dima,

Got these from a Bharat Rakshak posting:
Some numbers of frontal RCS of different planes:

B-52 100m2
F-4: 25m2
F-15E, B1B: 10m2
Nonstealth Fighters (MiG-21,23,29, F-16A, Mirage 2000) : 3-5m2
F-16C 1.2m2
Gripen: 1m2?
Typhoon: 0.1m2
Rafale: 0.05m2
F-35: 0.005 and 0.01 m2 (US/UK and export variants, respectively)
F-22, F-117, B-2: 0.001-0.005 m2

I'm not sure how exactly accurate they are. I have a similar question regarding the LCA. It is by far the smallest of all the above mentioned a/c and has a huge amount of composite materials. Unfortuantely external weapons will ruin it. But then, this is also the case with rafale and typhoon and they are much bigger than the LCA. Any educated guesses any one??

Kind Regards,
USS.

Anon

"> M21Sniper
> The upper speed limit for 5G maneuver: Mach 1.3, Sea-level to
> Mach 2.0, 50,000 fts (with A/B thrust)
Max Q is Mach 1.1 at 17,000 at 7G's
SOURCE -Aviation Week & Space Technology Magazine September 6, 1999
"

Those are just the specifications. The F-22 exceeds those figures handily.

Dima

wow, GREATLY APPRECIATED, i'm going to use this as a reference

so the F-117 ahs roughly the same RCS as the F-22, that means that if a nation gets lucky like the Yugoslavians, they may actually be able to shoot down a single F-22, lol

so, the B-2 ahs the lowest RCS, then F-22, then F-117

Anon

The B-1Bs RCS is always quoted as 1% that of the B-52.

10m2 is not 1% of 100m2.

1m2 is.

Dima

yea, i know, why did you post that?

thanks for that, though, don't understand why?

Anon

Because your list puts the B-1Bs RCS at 10m2, which is 10x larger than is publically stated.

avon1944

> khruschev
> Because American planes can't perform it LOL :D
> It seems to me that F-22 has only 2-D thrust vectoring, while
> the Russian aircraft under developpment, such as Su-37, Su-47,
> MiG 1.44, and probably Sukhoi PAK-FA, have 3-D thrust vectoring
The MiG.-29 does not have TVC but, it can do the cobra, hook, hammerhead, etc. These maneuvers do not depend on TVC, they depend on the flight control systems.
The reality is the F-22 can do a whole lot of maneuvers that are valuable in high speed combat than the hook or cobra. The hook and cobra are good in a "guns" envirement ONLY! The Israeli AF and USAF both consider those maneuvers as B.S.!! Which two air forces have more modern jet aerial combat than these two air forces. Great for shows but that is all. I search on ACIG and here are the last ten gun kills are;
10/??/82 __ IRAF __ MiG-21MF __ 23mm __Victim => I²RAF __ AH-1J

02/27/84 __ IRAF __ MiG-21 __ 23mm __ Victim => I²RAF __ CH-47C

02/14/86 __ I²RAF __ AH-1J __ 20mm __ Victim => IRAF __ MiG.-21

04/03/86 __ IRAF __ MiG.-21 __ 23mm __ Victim => I²RAF __ Hercules L-100

07/25/88 __ I²RAF __ F-4E __ 20mm __ Victim => IRAF __ Bell 214ST Helo

08/02/90 __ IRAF __ F.1EQ __ 30mm __ Victim => KuAF __ Helo

08/02/90 __ KuAF __ A-4KU __ 20mm __ Victim => IRAF __ Helo

08/02/90 __ KuAF __ A-4KU __ 20mm __ Victim => IRAF __ Helo

08/02/90 __ KuAF __ A-4KU __ 20mm __ Victim => IRAF __ Helo

02/15/91 __ USAF __ A-10 __ 30mm __ Victim => IRAF __ Mi-8 Helo

If you check the records of aerial combat since the Viet Nam War, you will the distances at which kills have been made have slowly but steadily increased. It has been 14 years since a gun kill has been made. Nine out of the last ten kills were against helicopters and one against a C-130 (L-100)! Missiles are getting better, what is the likelyhood of guns being used anytime soon?
Russia is hoping for a dogfight where there are at least three dozen aircraft from each side fighting. Seven dozen or more aircraft in one dogfight means the unseen shorter will make most of the kills. Unfortunately, for Russia..... they are not producing aircraft in quantity to fight an attrition war.


> Enzo Ferrari
> Any Su-37, Su-47 amd MiG 1.44 "invisible" from radar, hitting the
> target without detected?
I don't understand how the fans of the Russian Air Force keep wishing each new test aircraft will be their savior, one that will lead them to air superiority. Their Air Force "generalS" including the Russian Federation Air Force Commander-in-Chief, Colonel-general Vladimir Mikhailov have stated as late as 2002 that the Russian AF will not produce a stealth aircraft until after the F-35 becomes operational in the 2013 or later time frame.


> Dima
> i'm going to use this as a reference so the F-117 ahs roughly
> the same RCS as the F-22
NO..... the F-22 is the stealthiest aircraft ever, followed by the B-2 Spirit.
This was a reference given for the B-2 and F-22 [F-22A/B-2A___-40.0db =0.0001m²]. Since then changes have been made and the F-22 is more stealthy than the B-2! This was the statistic that was previously quoted as the degree of stealth. Here are figures for other aircraft;
F-15C/Su-27__+06.0db =6.0m²
Typhoon______+00.5db =1.5m²
Rafale_______+00.0db =1.0m²
B-1B/F-18E___+00.0db =1.0m²
LFI__________-20.0db =0.01m²
F-35A/B/C____-30.0db =0.001m²
F-117A_______-35.0db =0.0005m²
F-22A/B-2A___-40.0db =0.0001m²


>> M21Sniper
>> The upper speed limit for 5G maneuver: Mach 1.3, Sea-level to
>> Mach 2.0, 50,000 fts (with A/B thrust)
> Max Q is Mach 1.1 at 17,000 at 7G's
> SOURCE -Aviation Week & Space Technology Magazine September
> 6, 1999
This was a milestone that was passed, not a spec. Since then greater milestoneS have been passed.
REMEMBER:
10m²/100m² = 0.1m²

0.1m² X 0.1m² = 0.01m² = 1%
The original statement of the B-1 having 1% the RCS of the B-52 is correct.

When sighting statistics one must remember the time frame in which the statistic is taken from.
EXAMPLES:
1) When the F-14A and F-15A first met in ACM the kill ratio was roughly 1:1. Months later after the F-15A learned to use its thrust advantage to its fullest, the F-15A was a better fighter in the "guns" envirement.
Now the competition had ROE's where both aircraft approached each other at the same speed, altitude and, only 1,000 feet separation laterally.

2) When the F-15A fought the F-5E during AIMVAL/ACEVAL, the F-15A had a kill ratio of 64:0. A year or two later, F-5E aggressor pilots got tired of dying day after day. They started coming using "team tactics" thus getting kills against the F-15A's. They erased the 64:0 ratio but, I never heard exactly how well the aggressor pilots did.
Team tactics are not just maneuvers against the F-15's but, maneuvers that as the two groups of aircraft approached each other the F-5E's were able to confuse the radar picture, sometimes get an unseen shoot into the fight or, take advantage of the F-15 pilots in one way or another.

Adrian