Thread: F-15C vs. Su-30MKI

[QUOTE=Jay]Nice try to explain HMS George Fernandes is not a pilot and he's not India's defence minister anymore, he just flew in the MiG's. GWB and DR, even if they were pilots they wouldnt know much about F-22's.


1. Lets say that he's a not a fighter aircraft pilot but since u urself mentioned abt him flying a mig => he's a pilot at least. And most importantly though he is not the indian defence minister but he do iwas for 5 years (the period when the SU-30MKI took its shape . and i can bet the discussion committees under him must have discussed up to the last detail about the comparision of MKI's etc.. with the other aircrafts like f16,f15,m2k,rafale typhoon and even F22. and he must have been breifed about the same.At least to purchase an aircraft we definitely check out our needs and comparision with what all it might face and with US in afganistan American planes would definitely ahve been comapred.And frankly i firmly believe tha he would know more about F22 than at least me , most probably u and most of the other people in teh forum jsut because he was the defence minister of India..

[QUOTE=Jay]So Cobra manuv gave the edge? Nothing else? Its not the machine, its not the pilots training?

u r rite its al about machine and u should know that SU30 ahs 3D TVC which definitely means that its more manouverable than F22(2D TVC)



[QUOTE=Jay]R-77's hasnt seen any wars so far, while AMRAAM's have proved themselves in many a battles. 'nuff said!


F16 is battle proved and F22 isnt.i guess u got the point.Just that u might get a primitive version of SU27 with a F15C/E but not MKI.Even MKK was too much for it.

[QUOTE=Jay]IAF pilots are top notch agreed, so are USAF pilots ! All other airforces in the world always ranks themselves with USAF cozUSAF is far out ahead. IAF fought in full numbers while USAF didnt.

i'll give two facts:
1. Indians pilots got more flying hours last year than the american counterparts. That do makes a difference.
2. An Indian pilot is selected from a lot of competition.u shoudl realize taht india has a lot of people and only a few fighter pilots the ratio is more intense than american pilots. So definitely we can say that indian pilots must ahve better analytical skills and than american counterparts .And please dont say that american trainings can make a difference.Since indians got more practice on comparable planes(M2K,SU30MKI,MIG29 ).


[QUOTE=Jay]Aryan pilots can go fuck themselves and the cowboys cud care less!

Originally Posted by Jay

Barrow, its indeed pun. India or Hindus has got nothing to do with it.

i dont think tehres a needfor using abusive language.We can always keep the discussions as ehalthy.

Sorry for the wrong formatting please neglect the previous post

Originally Posted by Jay

Nice try to explain HMS George Fernandes is not a pilot and he's not India's defence minister anymore, he just flew in the MiG's. GWB and DR, even if they were pilots they wouldnt know much about F-22's.

1. Lets say that he's a not a fighter aircraft pilot but since u urself mentioned abt him flying a mig => he's a pilot at least. And most importantly though he is not the indian defence minister but he do iwas for 5 years (the period when the SU-30MKI took its shape . and i can bet the discussion committees under him must have discussed up to the last detail about the comparision of MKI's etc.. with the other aircrafts like f16,f15,m2k,rafale typhoon and even F22. and he must have been breifed about the same.At least to purchase an aircraft we definitely check out our needs and comparision with what all it might face and with US in afganistan American planes would definitely ahve been comapred.And frankly i firmly believe tha he would know more about F22 than at least me , most probably u and most of the other people in teh forum jsut because he was the defence minister of India..

Originally Posted by Jay

So Cobra manuv gave the edge? Nothing else? Its not the machine, its not the pilots training?

u r rite its al about machine and u should know that SU30 ahs 3D TVC which definitely means that its more manouverable than F22(2D TVC)

Originally Posted by Jay

R-77's hasnt seen any wars so far, while AMRAAM's have proved themselves in many a battles. 'nuff said!

F16 is battle proved and F22 isnt.i guess u got the point.Just that u might get a primitive version of SU27 with a F15C/E but not MKI.Even MKK was too much for it.

Originally Posted by Jay

IAF pilots are top notch agreed, so are USAF pilots ! All other airforces in the world always ranks themselves with USAF cozUSAF is far out ahead. IAF fought in full numbers while USAF didnt.

i'll give two facts:
1. Indians pilots got more flying hours last year than the american counterparts. That do makes a difference.
2. An Indian pilot is selected from a lot of competition.u shoudl realize taht india has a lot of people and only a few fighter pilots the ratio is more intense than american pilots. So definitely we can say that indian pilots must ahve better analytical skills and than american counterparts .And please dont say that american trainings can make a difference.Since indians got more practice on comparable planes(M2K,SU30MKI,MIG29 ).

Originally Posted by Jay

Aryan pilots can go fuck themselves and the cowboys cud care less!

Originally Posted by Jay

Barrow, its indeed pun. India or Hindus has got nothing to do with it.

i dont think tehres a needfor using abusive language.We can always keep the discussions as ehalthy.

I dont believe that I'm replying for this, but,

Originally Posted by ajaybhutani

1. Lets say that he's a not a fighter aircraft pilot but since u urself mentioned abt him flying a mig => he's a pilot at least.

Yeah, I fly in a Boeing/Airbus every week, so does that make me a pilot too??

And most importantly though he is not the indian defence minister but he do iwas for 5 years (the period when the SU-30MKI took its shape . and i can bet the discussion committees under him must have discussed up to the last detail about the comparision of MKI's etc.. with the other aircrafts like f16,f15,m2k,rafale typhoon and even F22.

As if we know the information of all these fighters to compare against.

US in afganistan American planes would definitely ahve been comapred.And frankly i firmly believe tha he would know more about F22 than at least me , most probably u and most of the other people in teh forum jsut because he was the defence minister of India..

And so ?? What difference does it make?? Say China knows about the capabilities of F22, so their J-10's would have all the features of F-22. Weird logic!! Actually "some" in this forum "may" know more than Georgie.

u r rite its al about machine and u should know that SU30 ahs 3D TVC which definitely means that its more manouverable than F22(2D TVC)

So just by manoveribility you gonna beat out an F-22 using a MKI? If its tit-for-tat match, ever heard of Supercruise?

F16 is battle proved and F22 isnt.i guess u got the point.Just that u might get a primitive version of SU27 with a F15C/E but not MKI.Even MKK was too much for it.

That speaks a lot about american technology, it works as advertised. It hasnt been the case for Russia.

i'll give two facts:
1. Indians pilots got more flying hours last year than the american counterparts. That do makes a difference.

Wrong. Indian pilots are getting enuff hours, so as american pilots.

2. An Indian pilot is selected from a lot of competition.u shoudl realize taht india has a lot of people and only a few fighter pilots the ratio is more intense than american pilots. So definitely we can say that indian pilots must ahve better analytical skills and than american counterparts .And please dont say that american trainings can make a difference.Since indians got more practice on comparable planes(M2K,SU30MKI,MIG29 ).

wrong again. So in that case china should have more "qualified" pilots, dont you think ?

i dont think tehres a needfor using abusive language.We can always keep the discussions as ehalthy.

Talk about race, I'll keep up the abuse. Military aviation has nothing to with races and racial slurs.

Having said all, MKI is one of the sweetest fighters in the world, right now, it'll remain so for atleast next 10-20-30 years, if we dont have any Starships or Klingon ships from outer space.

Originally Posted by Jay

I dont believe that I'm replying for this, but,

Its ur wish noone forces u to reply

[QUOTE=Jay]
Yeah, I fly in a Boeing/Airbus every week, so does that make me a pilot too??
[\QUOTE]
k.. my fault i misread ur statement" flying in a mig" as "flying a mig " and even wrote "flying a mig" in my post .I m sorry for that..

Originally Posted by Jay

As if we know the information of all these fighters to compare against.


And so ?? What difference does it make?? Say China knows about the capabilities of F22, so their J-10's would have all the features of F-22. Weird logic!! Actually "some" in this forum "may" know more than Georgie.


So just by manoveribility you gonna beat out an F-22 using a MKI? If its tit-for-tat match, ever heard of Supercruise?

Lemme rephrase myself.Wether they flied or not they are just teh poeple making decisions for their countries. They get all the freely available infromation and also the National intelligence information to take their deicisions and thus they stand a better chance to know more than most of us.Ur statement Like the this

Originally Posted by Jay

even if they were pilots they wouldnt know much about F-22's.

dsnt sound reall good does it..??..They definitely tend to know a lot a lot more than most of us.. dont they..???.

Originally Posted by Jay

That speaks a lot about american technology, it works as advertised. It hasnt been the case for Russia.

really didnt get u this time..??.. F16 is battle tested and F22 is not so does taht mean that F16 is better no rite....in the same way An R77 cant be called inferior with statements like an AMRAAM's have seen battles while R77 hasnt .Definitely it battle proven stuff are easier to use .So if we can prove that R77 and AMRAAMs have similar characteristics then ur point becomes real significant But again if u can fire a missile 50Kms earlier than AMRAAM then dsnt it make R77 better unless of course u can prove that its guidance ssytem is all shit..(lemme remind u that indians are not using the primitive cversions of R77 but teh upgraded ones.).Hope i made myself clearer than last time.

Wrong. Indian pilots are getting enuff hours, so as american pilots.

So what was wrong in those words."The india pilots did get more flying hours last year than their american counterparts.".isnt taht a fact..???

wrong again. So in that case china should have more "qualified" pilots, dont you think ?


Talk about race, I'll keep up the abuse. Military aviation has nothing to with races and racial slurs.

My dear frnd its not about races its about opportunities.. indians are a bad lot in terms of money and jobs available tahn americans. A job as a fighter pilot isnt as lucrative for an american as for an indian simply because american citizens have more opportunities to get a job with similar pay and lesser risks..wheras in india its not the case.So if we for the time being assume that natural talents in an american and an indian are comparable (with no biases for either) IAF sees the more capable lot in general simply because these people didnt have any other safer job that can pay that much). And yes chineese have better opportunities than indians.
It is definitely not the only factor but yes one of the factors that do affect.And if we are talking about the comparison between the indian and american pilots surely indains wont stand a chance in todays secnarios on a one - one basis (bec americans have AEWACS and mid flight refuellers for years and have a lot of practice on them)and other equipments to support them and one of the factors they performed badly was because they werent with their regular support of aewacs.And we all can bet that americans will maintain their supremacy for decades.But again that is a matter of facilities given to people to perform.

And Military aviation has nothin to do with abuse ..does it??..

Having said all, MKI is one of the sweetest fighters in the world, right now, it'll remain so for atleast next 10-20-30 years, if we dont have any Starships or Klingon ships from outer space.

We both agree with each other on this point.Maybe just our way to approach differs.

Regards
Ajay

Originally Posted by ajaybhutani

Its ur wish noone forces u to reply

Err, but the sheer stupidy in yur arguements makes me think twice to reply.

Lemme rephrase myself.Wether they flied or not they are just teh poeple making decisions for their countries. They get all the freely available infromation and also the National intelligence information to take their deicisions and thus they stand a better chance to know more than most of us.Ur statement Like the this

Still I dont see the relevance. How is it gonna help you in a fight??

really didnt get u this time..??..

WTF is that??

F16 is battle tested and F22 is not so does taht mean that F16 is better no rite....in the same way An R77 cant be called inferior with statements like an AMRAAM's have seen battles while R77 hasnt .Definitely it battle proven stuff are easier to use .So if we can prove that R77 and AMRAAMs have similar characteristics then ur point becomes real significant

Actually you still are confusing. But let me make myself clear again, F-16 is an yardstick for American technology. Russia, though has some nice weapon systems/designs it still is not equivalent to what USA produces. Same goes for AMRAAM Vs R-77. Is it hard to understand or are you trying real hard not to understand??

This is what Aviation Weekly has to say about R-77's,

Those skeptical of the experiments say they're being used to justify the new Aim-9X high-off-boresight, short-range missile and its helmet-mounted cuing system, the F-22 as an air superiority fighter and, possibly, the development of a new long-range air-to-air missile that could match the F-22 radar's ability to find targets at around 120 mi. They contend that the Su-30MK can only get its BVR missile shot off first against a large radar target like the F-15. While it's true that the Su-30 MK would not succeed against the stealthy F-22 or F-35, neither would it regularly beat the nonstealthy (but relatively small radar cross section) F-16 or F/A-18E/F, they said. These analysts don't deny the F-22's value as an air-to-air fighter, but say the aircraft's actual operational value will be greatest in the penetrating strike, air defense suppression and electronic jamming roles.

The R-27ER, while only semiactive, also outperforms the baseline R-77 ( AA-12) in terms of kinematics. The R-77 motor has a simple, and short, burn profile, which has resulted in disappointing performance, piquing the Russian air force's interest in developing the K-77M rather than fielding the basic AA-12 in any numbers. The K-77M (K denotes a missile still in development, while R reflects an inventory weapon) is an upgraded R-77 with improvements that include a larger motor with a burn sequence profiled to increase range.

http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/comparison-f15-su30-1.html

But again if u can fire a missile 50Kms earlier than AMRAAM then dsnt it make R77 better unless of course u can prove that its guidance ssytem is all shit..(lemme remind u that indians are not using the primitive cversions of R77 but teh upgraded ones.).Hope i made myself clearer than last time.

The whole discussion is about the so called claimed "range" for R-77's. IAF is using R-77RVV-AE for its MiG's and SU's. It also depends on what kinda radar you have onboard,(AN/APG-77 for F-22) Given the stealth charecteristics of F-22, and MKI's large RCS, AIM-54 can make wonders. So 50 kms doesnt matter much in this situation. Check these discussions for more info,
Eurofighter vs Su-30MKI

So what was wrong in those words."The india pilots did get more flying hours last year than their american counterparts.".isnt taht a fact..???

since you have a problem in comprehending sentences, I'll say it again, IAF pilots are getting more hours and so the Americans. It doesnt mean that IAF pilots are getting MORE flying hours than USAF pilots. Got it?

My dear frnd its not about races its about opportunities..

WTF is that lecture for? I was talking about Aryan/Cowboy...race as in human race...geez!

IAF sees the more capable lot in general simply because these people didnt have any other safer job that can pay that much). And yes chineese have better opportunities than indians.

Bah, I concur. I cant discuss any more with you. Population has nothing to do with talent. FYI,Israel has a population of about 6 Million, if I go by your expert opinion Israeli Airforce should not exist.

But again that is a matter of facilities given to people to perform.

Wrong again, Saudi Arabia has enuff money and facilities, are they at par with any of the top AF's??

And Military aviation has nothin to do with abuse ..does it??..

It does, for me. As I said races and religion has nothing to do with the discussion we'r having here.

Originally Posted by Jay

Err, but the sheer stupidy in yur arguements makes me think twice to reply.


Still I dont see the relevance. How is it gonna help you in a fight??


WTF is that??



Actually you still are confusing. But let me make myself clear again, F-16 is an yardstick for American technology. Russia, though has some nice weapon systems/designs it still is not equivalent to what USA produces. Same goes for AMRAAM Vs R-77. Is it hard to understand or are you trying real hard not to understand??

This is what Aviation Weekly has to say about R-77's,

http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/comparison-f15-su30-1.html

The whole discussion is about the so called claimed "range" for R-77's. IAF is using R-77RVV-AE for its MiG's and SU's. It also depends on what kinda radar you have onboard,(AN/APG-77 for F-22) Given the stealth charecteristics of F-22, and MKI's large RCS, AIM-54 can make wonders. So 50 kms doesnt matter much in this situation. Check these discussions for more info,
Eurofighter vs Su-30MKI


since you have a problem in comprehending sentences, I'll say it again, IAF pilots are getting more hours and so the Americans. It doesnt mean that IAF pilots are getting MORE flying hours than USAF pilots. Got it?


WTF is that lecture for? I was talking about Aryan/Cowboy...race as in human race...geez!


Bah, I concur. I cant discuss any more with you. Population has nothing to do with talent. FYI,Israel has a population of about 6 Million, if I go by your expert opinion Israeli Airforce should not exist.


Wrong again, Saudi Arabia has enuff money and facilities, are they at par with any of the top AF's??


It does, for me. As I said races and religion has nothing to do with the discussion we'r having here.

My dear frnd,
as i have said earlier in my ports , u cannot generalize and say that the weapons russians produce are nowhere near their Us counterparts unless u can prove it.. only americans take that kind of a statement as a fact... so please prove it ..
and again just as i said if u can prove that R77's guidance ssytem is shit .. i'll accept it.. and i do accept it now.. but again in all ur preveious posts u assumed that since u know it eveon else knows it and without mentioning the link or even saying that its guidance is jsut just saying that R77 is not battle proven dsnt make any sense to me.So can u see that even i can call ur posts and ur logic as stupid too.
please give others a chance to know too... and yes as i said even before its not about abusing and u still go on doing that ..dont u???.. .. how do u think this is gonna help u make ur point ?? if u r gonna shout at me and expect that i m gonna listen then please reconsider the way u think...

secondly i said that population is one of the factors and so is the opportunities..
take an example of saudi arabia. They have money but they cant reach the high end technology.. dotn u think they have nough money that they can hire the outside scientists if they can find any.I just wanna make a point that Money != Oportunities.

And yes i'll think is a link to justtify taht indian pilots got more combat hours than americans..
http://www.afa.org/magazine/july2004/0704watch.asp

Originally Posted by LINK

Another suprise was the quality of training the Indian pilots received. USAF fighter pilots log about 250 flight hours a year. The Indian fighter pilots said they’ve been getting as many as 300 flying hours per year and that the majority of those hours was spent in full-up combat training.

And yes wasnt this form to compare F15C with SU30MKI.. and not F22 with SU30MKi.I do accept that AIM can do a formidable damage if used with F22 but can it do the same when put on F15C ..???..


I m new to this forum ..Maybe i dont know the rules or ethics of this place clearly but theres one thing i know as a fact is that "one cant make any point by abusing".
Thanks and regards
Ajay

Originally Posted by ajaybhutani

My dear frnd,
as i have said earlier in my ports , u cannot generalize and say that the weapons russians produce are nowhere near their Us counterparts unless u can prove it.. only americans take that kind of a statement as a fact... so please prove it

Its been repeatedly proved, if you havent noticed it, its not my fault.

and again just as i said if u can prove that R77's guidance ssytem is shit .. i'll accept it.. and i do accept it now.. but again in all ur preveious posts u assumed that since u know it eveon else knows it and without mentioning the link or even saying that its guidance is jsut just saying that R77 is not battle proven dsnt make any sense to me.So can u see that even i can call ur posts and ur logic as stupid too.

You couldnt back up your stories, while I did. Want to know more about your stupidity??

please give others a chance to know too... and yes as i said even before its not about abusing and u still go on doing that ..dont u???.. .. how do u think this is gonna help u make ur point ?? if u r gonna shout at me and expect that i m gonna listen then please reconsider the way u think...

pff, its just a discussion forum, I'm not shouting or thumping in front of my screen, LOL, if you feel it that way, may be its your fault.

take an example of saudi arabia. They have money but they cant reach the high end technology.. dotn u think they have nough money that they can hire the outside scientists if they can find any.

They have top of the line equipment purchased from assorted countries like USA, Russia, China etc etc. So they already got so called high end technology, LOL, what ever that means!

Another suprise was the quality of training the Indian pilots received. USAF fighter pilots log about 250 flight hours a year. The Indian fighter pilots said they’ve been getting as many as 300 flying hours per year and that the majority of those hours was spent in full-up combat training.

300 is not average for IAF pilot. Go check BR's thread on Cope Thunder Exercise.

Like their counterparts in the US Air Force, the French Air Force and the British RAF, Indian pilots are very well trained and their annual flying hours are in the range of 220-280 hours annually

http://www.mouthshut.com/readreview/12842-1.html

And yes wasnt this form to compare F15C with SU30MKI.. and not F22 with SU30MKi.I do accept that AIM can do a formidable damage if used with F22 but can it do the same when put on F15C ..???..

F-15 with AESA/AIM 54 will do the same damage.

Originally Posted by Jay

Its been repeatedly proved, if you havent noticed it, its not my fault.


You couldnt back up your stories, while I did. Want to know more about your stupidity??


pff, its just a discussion forum, I'm not shouting or thumping in front of my screen, LOL, if you feel it that way, may be its your fault.


They have top of the line equipment purchased from assorted countries like USA, Russia, China etc etc. So they already got so called high end technology, LOL, what ever that means!


300 is not average for IAF pilot. Go check BR's thread on Cope Thunder Exercise.

http://www.mouthshut.com/readreview/12842-1.html


F-15 with AESA/AIM 54 will do the same damage.

1. u are the one calling othes stupid and testing their patience ... isnt that worse than shouting..??.. seems some people dont deserve a polite relply..
2. about ur link .. i gave u a link ...u gave me another contradicting mine.. did u even open my link??... you havent proved that my link is wrong ??.. have u?? so how can u say i m wrong ... it can be either of the case .. either the link u got is wrong or the one i got is wrong..or they both.. did u even see the date of ur link( it ws written in aug 01 in case u didnt notice) dont u think things change in 3 years time?......mine is dated july 2004........
3. And about AESA on F15 the F15's in cope thunder had AESA radars.... both MK and F`15C where able to see each other at the saem time on their respective radars....in case u didnt read my link carefully..heres the extract..

Details of the exercise remain classified, according to an Air Force spokesperson. However, industry and service officials report that the Indian pilots flying Su-30MKs and the American pilots in their F-15s were able to spot each other on radar at about the same time. The Indian pilots frequently took the first simulated shots and won a number of dogfights.

It clearly mentions that indian pilots got better first hand shots which clearly indicates an edge for them in combat situations..... and yes since we were comparing F15C with MKI which is definitely better than MK used in Cope india .... the things cant be better for F15C in confrontation with MKI .

4. And yes can a F15 fire missile backward??..in case not..then thats another edge with MKI...
5. and u think a F15AESA with AESA/AIM54 can do the same damage as F22 with AESA ..then whats the need of F22??..do u wanna say that americans dont need F22??



6. And about The quipments Saudis have .. i'll jsut give u a simple logic in case u can digest it ..
"i hava a car and i know how to drive it .. and in know how to repair it can i build one from scratch??.."

You couldnt back up your stories, while I did. Want to know more about your stupidity??

7. hey dude dont u think u need to back up ur claims like F15 with "aesa can do same damage as F22 .." or indian flying hours are not 300" u ahvent been able to prove eiother one of them yet.....and yes please dont hesitate to mention what ipoint i made that needs a proof /validation..?.


i couldnt have been more polite to u than this ... .. and i just feel that u coulnt have been worse...
thanks and regards
Ajay

( it ws written in aug 01 in case u didnt notice) dont u think things change in 3 years time?......mine is dated july 2004.......

It still doesnt change anything. IAF pilots dont fly 300 hours average in a year.

3. And about AESA on F15 the F15's in cope thunder had AESA radars....

There are conflicting reports on that!

both MK and F`15C where able to see each other at the saem time on their respective radars....in case u didnt read my link carefully..heres the extract..

Thats what makes me think that Eagles didnt have AESA radar.

And yes can a F15 fire missile backward??..in case not..then thats another edge with MKI...

So you gonna fire a missile backward on an Eagle which is gonna engage you BVR?? nice tactic!

u think a F15AESA with AESA/AIM54 can do the same damage as F22 with AESA ..then whats the need of F22??..do u wanna say that americans dont need F22??

Kiddo, dont ask me, there is website called google. You said MKI will see the "Eagle" first and will launch a R-77 in 50 kms range. A F15 with AESA and a F-22 will see the MKI before hand and will launch AIM-54. So the same damage?? got it?

"i hava a car and i know how to drive it .. and in know how to repair it can i build one from scratch??.."

You didnt say that. You said,

take an example of saudi arabia. They have money but they cant reach the high end technology..

A big for the rest of your gibberish. And yeah this wud be my last post in this "enlightening" topic.

Originally Posted by Jay

It still doesnt change anything. IAF pilots dont fly 300 hours average in a year.

I have given u a link supporting it and u still dont wanna believe it or even contradict it .. arent u acting like a stubborn??..

There are conflicting reports on that!

U forgot to mention the links to these reports..??


[QUTOE=]Thats what makes me think that Eagles didnt have AESA radar.[/QUOTE]
Are u an expert at EAGLES??..that if u think Eagles didnt have AESA they didnt...??.. please support ur arguments..

So you gonna fire a missile backward on an Eagle which is gonna engage you BVR?? nice tactic!

I think i'll thank Russians for trying it in Su37 and giving it to us in MKI..

Kiddo, dont ask me, there is website called google. You said MKI will see the "Eagle" first and will launch a R-77 in 50 kms range. A F15 with AESA and a F-22 will see the MKI before hand and will launch AIM-54. So the same damage?? got it?

An F15 with EASA sees MK at the same time as MK sees Eagle.. i just gave u a link for it.. didnt i and u havent disproved it or even told me that u have some post mentioning a link otherwise...? did u??

and yes U dont have a right to call me a Kiddo..i too have limits to my patience....

You didnt say that. You said,

As expected u didnt get the point ...by access to better technology i meant acces to how to make it.... maybe i wasnt very clear..

A big for the rest of your gibberish. And yeah this wud be my last post in this "enlightening" topic.

hey what happ got afraid of this Kiddoo??.. or dont ahve any more postdated links left to support ur claims??... comeon be a man reply...

thanks and Regards
Ajay

Originally Posted by ajaybhutani

I have given u a link supporting it and u still dont wanna believe it or even contradict it .. arent u acting like a stubborn??..

I gave you other links that contradict your statements. And no it wont change in 3 years.

U forgot to mention the links to these reports..??

Link to what report?

Are u an expert at EAGLES??..that if u think Eagles didnt have AESA they didnt...??.. please support ur arguments..

Why, you would believe only an expert?? :LOL!
None of the links says those F-15's are equipped with AESA radars...no official conformation. Check Elemendorf AF website. Only 12th Sq in 3 Op Grp has APG 63(V)2 equipped Eagles.
Check out the badges for 12th and 19 Sq with this Cope India picture. He's got 19th Sq badge and 19th Sq has no APG 63 (V) 2 Eagles.
Now STFU!

http://www.elmendorf.af.mil/3Wing/Gr...docs/index.htm
http://www.elmendorf.af.mil/3Wing/Gr...docs/index.htm
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Im...opeIndia06.jpg

I think i'll thank Russians for trying it in Su37 and giving it to us in MKI..

So now you are in expert in MKI's and SU-37's?? So next time if some one engages a MKI in BVR, ask him to fire the missile from his tail! LOL!

Hopefully our pilots have something called tactics and training!!

An F15 with EASA sees MK at the same time as MK sees Eagle.. i just gave u a link for it.. didnt i and u havent disproved it or even told me that u have some post mentioning a link otherwise...? did u??

EASA? Whats that? A new radar desinged by you? LOL!!
None of your links say that F-15's are equipped with AESA APG-63 (V)2. If so, an Eagle would detect MK before a MK can see an Eagle. Go compare APG-63 (V)2 with N001.
Not to mention that USAF didnt field AESA eqipeed (V) 2 radars for this exercise. Regular AN/APG-63 is a doppler radar and N011 is superior to it, but not with APG-63 (V) 2. And if APG-77 is considered, it'll just jus pick the nails out out of a junkyard.

and yes U dont have a right to call me a Kiddo..i too have limits to my patience....

Oh, I'm scared to death! LOL!

As expected u didnt get the point ...by access to better technology i meant acces to how to make it.... maybe i wasnt very clear..

Yeah, I had to devise a parser to reply to your posts!

hey what happ got afraid of this Kiddoo??.. or dont ahve any more postdated links left to support ur claims??... comeon be a man reply...

I cant reply to snots. Besides, you are not making any valid points, you are just harping the same old story! So as I said, good bye!

Originally Posted by Jay

I gave you other links that contradict your statements. And no it wont change in 3 years.

So somethin did happen didnt they either one of the links is incorrect and u havent proved mine as incorrect yet.. so if we really assume both links are correct then things did change ..and how can u say that they cant change in 3 years ??.. are u an expert at it.. ??..

Link to what report?

u said

There are conflicting reports on that!

these reports dude..???? seems u cant recognize ur own statements... can u?

Why, you would believe only an expert?? :LOL!

If somethin contradicts my thoughts i need a good and convincing argument (i believe it goes for any other sane person..)...and so u can understand that in ur case i'll only believe in an expert and not u??..

None of the links says those F-15's are equipped with AESA radars...no official conformation. Check Elemendorf AF website. Only 12th Sq in 3 Op Grp has APG 63(V)2 equipped Eagles.


Check out the badges for 12th and 19 Sq with this Cope India picture. He's got 19th Sq badge and 19th Sq has no APG 63 (V) 2 Eagles.
Now STFU!

http://www.elmendorf.af.mil/3Wing/Gr...docs/index.htm
http://www.elmendorf.af.mil/3Wing/Gr...docs/index.htm

So heres the link i i was talking about.. u gave the link and even say that u cant understand

So now you are in expert in MKI's and SU-37's?? So next time if some one engages a MKI in BVR, ask him to fire the missile from his tail! LOL!

Heres the link
http://bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Aircraft/Specs/index.html

and as i can expect u dont like reading the links i post.. so heres the extract.
[QUOTE]
. It features a surveillance area of ±60º in azimuth and elevation. It enables the pilot to fire the R-73RDM2 missile without turning to get a positive lock on the enemy aircraft. The missile will be launched as usual and will then flip 180º to intercept the enemy aircraft.
/QUOTe]

Hopefully our pilots have something called tactics and training!!

Lets hope they do..

EASA? Whats that? A new radar desinged by you? LOL!!
None of your links say that F-15's are equipped with AESA APG-63 (V)2. If so, an Eagle would detect MK before a MK can see an Eagle. Go compare APG-63 (V)2 with N001.

Dude it was just a typing error cant u figure sucha small thing out.. seems u just wanna contradict without a reason.....

Not to mention that USAF didnt field AESA eqipeed (V) 2 radars for this exercise. Regular AN/APG-63 is a doppler radar and N011 is superior to it, but not with APG-63 (V) 2. And if APG-77 is considered, it'll just jus pick the nails out out of a junkyard.

This is APG-63(V)2

Doppler mode: Yes, high and medium PRF
Ground clutter filters: Yes
NCTR: Yes
Band of operation: I/J-band
Scanning: +/-60deg.

Look-down/Shoot-down: Yes
Max search range: 240km
Max search range against a 10m^2 target: 240km
Max track range against a 10m^2 target: 185km
Max search range against a 3m^2 target: 175km
Max track range against a 3m^2 target: 135km

Кто не хочет, пусть не ест...


For MKI The best extract i could find is
http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/info-su30mki.html#8

For aircraft N011M has a 350 km search range and a 200 km tracking range. The radar can track and engage 20 air targets and engage the 8 most threatening targets simultaneously. The forward hemisphere is ±90º in azimuth and ±55º in elevation. These targets can include cruise/ballistic missiles and even motionless helicopters. A MiG-21 for instance can be detected at a distance of up to 135 km. Design maximum search range for an F-16 target was 140-160km. A Bars' earlier variant, fitted with a five-kilowatt transmitter, proved to be capable of acquiring Su-27 fighters at a range of over 330 km. In comparison, the advanced Kopyo radar found in the latest MiG-21UPG can detect small drone targets at a range of 50 km. Another radar meant for the Flanker family, Phazotron-NIIR’s Zhuk-MS radar has a range of 150-180km against a fighter and over 300km against a warship. N011M can withstand up to 5 percent transceiver loss without significant degredation in performance. Additionally the Su-30MKI can function as a 'mimi-AWACS' and can act as a director or command post for other aircraft. The target co-ordinates can be transferred automatically to atleast 4 other aircraft. This feature was first seen in the MiG-31 Foxhound, which is equipped with a Zaslon radar.

Russian designers have stated that they believe that the key to dogfight supremacy rests in the pilot's ability to engage the enemy in any position relative to their own aircraft. While TVC permits post-stall maneuvering and pointing which are impossible in conventional aircraft, they are convinced that a rearward facing radar and missiles that can be fired in the aft-quadrant all join to make an unbeatable integrated weapons system.

Ground surveillance modes include mapping (with Doppler beam sharpening), search & track of moving targets, synthetic aperture radar and terrain avoidance. To penetrate enemy defenses, the aircraft can fly at low altitudes using the terrain following and obstacle avoidance feature. It enables the pilot to independently find his position without help from external sources (satellite navigation, etc.); detect ground targets and their AD systems; choose the best approach route to a target with continuous updates fed to the aircraft navigation systems; and provide onboard systems and armament with targeting data.

According to Sukhoi EDB the Su-30MKI is capable of performing all tactical tasks of the Su-24 Fencer deep interdiction tactical bomber and the Su-27 Flanker A/B/C air superiority fighter while having around twice the combat range and atleast 2.5 times the combat effectiveness.

The N011M offers a quantum leap in technology over the earlier Russian radars. Small ground targets, like tanks, can be detected out to 40-50 km. The MiG-29, Su-27 and other fighters can be provided with a ground strike capability only if their radars can operate in the down-looking mode which generates a map of ground surface on a cockpit display (this mode is called the Mapping Mode).

N011M ensures a 20 m resolution detection of large sea targets at a distance up to 400 km, and of small size ones - at a distance of 120 km. Coupled with the air-launched Brahmos-A AShM, the Su-30MKI will become an unchallanged platform for Anti-Ship duties. The Brahmos is a result of a joint collaboration between India and Russia and is a variant of the Yakhont AShM (which has not entered service).

The Su-30MKI also has a NO12 rearward facing radar which is housed at the end of the center section spine or sting and alerts a pilot to the approach of an enemy aircraft on his tail. This radar has a range of 50km for a 3 sqm RCS target and 100 km for large ones. It features a surveillance area of ±60º in azimuth and elevation. It enables the pilot to fire the R-73RDM2 missile without turning to get a positive lock on the enemy aircraft. The missile will be launched as usual and will then flip 180º to intercept the aircraft.

from this i really cant say that AESA is better maybe if u have a link can u paste it for me ??..


thsi link for 19th wing was reviewed on july 2003 .. and yes u'll again say that things cant change in a year.. ???..
http://www.elmendorf.af.mil/3Wing/Gr...docs/index.htm


Theres definitely an element of suspicion about the RADARS about F15 used.. but onet thing is clear Indians didnt use MKI's in the Cope india and so if F15C were not the best one u used so were teh Su30's.And the SU30 specs are not very well known too..its a maturing aircraft.. every batch produced is supposed to have newer features.Thats the way the whole project is designed.U cant say what new will come in MKI in 2006-7 maybe even an AESA.
[QUOTE=Oh, I'm scared to death! LOL![/QUOTE]
i cant help if u dont wanna act sane.

Yeah, I had to devise a parser to reply to your posts!

just as i said in my previous posts in case u have doubts over anythin just ask for a link/explanation..and u do need a parser in case ur mind dsnt know how to read english.. otherwise ur brain will act like one..

I cant reply to snots. Besides, you are not making any valid points, you are just harping the same old story! So as I said, good bye!

Here u go rubbish again.......comeone u cant call my posts wrong by abusing me up in every post.. well its always the same old story the discussion is on the same topic..if u make a statement then be ther to support it dotn run away.

and u can see taht MKI has a rearward radar .. definnitely a bif advantage.. does F15 has it ??..

Originally Posted by ajaybhutani

So somethin did happen didnt they either one of the links is incorrect and u havent proved mine as incorrect yet.. so if we really assume both links are correct then things did change ..and how can u say that they cant change in 3 years ??.. are u an expert at it.. ??..

Yes I am! so what now??

these reports dude..???? seems u cant recognize ur own statements... can u?

I already gave you the source, go check Elmendorf website base press release. Besides, with so much crap going on its hard to keep up.

If somethin contradicts my thoughts i need a good and convincing argument (i believe it goes for any other sane person..)...and so u can understand that in ur case i'll only believe in an expert and not u??..

How would I make you to believe 1+1 = 2??

Dude it was just a typing error cant u figure sucha small thing out.. seems u just wanna contradict without a reason.....

How would I know ?? I thot its a new feature with F-15 C

This is APG-63(V)2
Doppler mode: Yes, high and medium PRF

you just proved that, all you do is just google. Its not the specs for (V) 2 radar. Learn the differences between an AESA radar and a regular dopplershift radar.

For MKI The best extract i could find is
http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/info-su30mki.html#8

I've been thro this details a zillion times. Remember IAF is my country's airforce.

from this i really cant say that AESA is better maybe if u have a link can u paste it for me ??..

Google.com. Find the differences between Active and Phased array!

thsi link for 19th wing was reviewed on july 2003 .. and yes u'll again say that things cant change in a year.. ???..
http://www.elmendorf.af.mil/3Wing/Gr...docs/index.htm

No, it wont. If it does, they'll update the page, its that simple.

Theres definitely an element of suspicion about the RADARS about F15 used.. but onet thing is clear Indians didnt use MKI's in the Cope india and so if F15C were not the best one u used so were teh Su30's.And the SU30 specs are not very well known too..its a maturing aircraft.. every batch produced is supposed to have newer features.Thats the way the whole project is designed.U cant say what new will come in MKI in 2006-7 maybe even an AESA.

MKI is built based on a "matured" aircraft (airframe) series, Su-27. Only the avionics can be upgraded.

just as i said in my previous posts in case u have doubts over anythin just ask for a link/explanation..and u do need a parser in case ur mind dsnt know how to read english.. otherwise ur brain will act like one..

Err, its one and the same.

Here u go rubbish again.......comeone u cant call my posts wrong by abusing me up in every post.. well its always the same old story the discussion is on the same topic..if u make a statement then be ther to support it dotn run away.

burn baby burn!

oh yeah, i'll just give you a helping hand, read this for today's assignment...
http://www.vectorsite.net/ttradar2.html