Thread: F-15C vs. Su-30MKI

This is true, but you need to give the jet-jockeys the illusion that they are flying "combat" against the Pal's...

"Yeah, if only because of past history proving the F-15I to be a kick a$$ plane..."

Here goes nothing.......

Dropping bombs on women and childern is not combat.

"As to the F-15I, the F-15E wasn't even envisiged when Israel bought the F-15. The I is really a heavilly modified F-15A."

It a downgraded F-15E. Missing systems from the USAF F-15E. The best F-15E export model is the F-15K which currently is more advanced then USAF F-15Es.

"The Kill to death ration for an F-15C against an Su-30 is 1:2."

That was a BS test to make it out like the EF-2000 is the second best fighter around.

...Missing systems from the USAF F-15E

Perhaps missing systems from the F-15E, but it has so many new, better israeli systems it more than makes up for it...

Such as BR?

Yup, looks like i was wrong bout the I.

So what was the IDF F-15A variant called? I could've SWORN they were I models too...

I looked it up and they are just called F-15A

Thanx dude.

I'm not above learning something new.

The F-15A,C,B and D are all known as the Baz (Falcon). The F-15I is known as the Ra'am (Thunder)

IAF F-15 Baz (Falcon)


ID:

An air dominance fighter manufactured in the USA. Since entering service with Heyl Ha'avir in 1976, the F-15 has registered numerous kills and participated in long range attacks, including as the raid on PLO headquarters in Tunis in 1985. Even now, after more than 20 years in operational service, the F-15 is one of the IAF's first line fighters.

In Action:

In 1974, the IAF assembled a test team for choosing an air dominance plane that would ensure the IAF's superiority over the Arab air forces for years to come. The candidates were the F-14 and the F-15, both of which were flown in the US by IAF pilots, who tested maneuverability, weapons systems and flight characteristics. The test team decided unanimously that the F-15 was a better plane, and one that could determine the shape of the battle and attain victory against every type of plane in the Arab arsenals. In July 1976, the F-15 Squadron's founding crew was sent to a retraining course in the US. The crew was headed by the man chosen to lead the squadron, now-General (res.) Eytan Ben-Eliyahu - who was IAF Commander. On December 10th 1976 the first Baz (as they were already called) planes arrived in Israel. The fact that they landed on Friday evening, after the start of the Sabbath, caused a political crisis that toppled the first Rabin government.
40 kills

To date, the IAF F-15s have shot down 40 planes, all of them Syrian. On June 27th 1979, Brig. Gen. (Res.) Moshe shot down a Syrian MiG-21 in Lebanese skies. This was the first time a MiG-21 had been shot down, anywhere in the world. On February 13th 1981 an IAF Baz used an air-to-air missile to shoot down a Syrian MiG-25. Again, this was a worldwide first.

Operation 'Opera'

On June 7th 1981, six F-15s escorted the eight F-16's which attacked the Iraqi nuclear reactor. The F-15's mission was to provide the attackers with defensive cover against enemy planes.

Operation 'Peace for the Galilee'

The Lebanon war reinforced the F-15's reputation as an interceptor. Around 30 enemy MiG-21's and MiG-23's were shot down during the fighting. Brig. Gen. (Res.) Moshe: "we kept the Syrians from flying in Lebanon, and did it in the best possible fashion. Every flight of Egyptian planes that tried to cross the lines and attack our forces in Lebanon was shot down. Sometimes a single plane out of the flight got to go back and tell the others the story of what had happened. We had a field day, basically, shooting down practically everything that flew. The MiG-21 and MiG-23, which formed the backbone of the Syrian air force, were crushed. As far as our squadron was concerned, the war was more like a shooting range."
Establishment of a second F-15 squadron was originally scheduled for June 6th 1982, but that turned out to be the day on which the war in Lebanon broke out. The planes were already on their way to Israel when fighting began, and they were immediately diverted to reinforce the existing squadron. When the war was over, the new squadron was established.

One-winged landing

In the summer of 1983, an Israeli F-15 staged a mock dogfight with Skyhawks for training purposes, near Nahal Tzin in the Negev desert. During the exercise, one of the Skyhawks miscalculated and collided forcefully with the F-15's wing root. The F-15's pilot was aware that the wing had been seriously damaged, but decided to try and land in a nearby airbase. It was only after he had landed, when he climbed out of the cockpit and looked backward, that the pilot realized what had happened: the wing had been completely torn off the plane, and he had landed the plane with only one wing attached.
A few months later, the damaged F-15 had been given a new wing, and returned to operational duty in the squadron. The engineers at McDonnell Douglas had a hard time believing the story of the one-winged landing: as far as their planning models were concerned, this was an impossibility.

Operation 'Wooden Leg'

On October of 1985, the IDF carried out the longest-ranged attack in its history. F-15s attacked and destroyed PLO headquarters at Hamam a-Shat on the shores of Tunis, in retaliation for the murder of three Israeli seafarers at Larnaka, Cyprus, earlier that year. 90% of the base's area was destroyed; dozens of terrorists were killed, and many others injured.

25 new planes equip the IAF

In October 1993 the IAF received 25 F-15s from the USAF surplus. The first 5 planes arrived from the States after an one day stopover in Europe, and proceeded to an IAF airbase in central Israel.

Baz-2000

In 1995 Heyl Ha'avir embarked upon the the 'Baz-2000' program for improving the F-15s and readying them for battlefield of the 21st century. The program will involve thorough changes in the avionics systems (expected cost - $90 million) and is to be completed in the first years of the new decade. The improvements include upgrading the cockpit controls that display data received from the radar and additional sensors that the plane is fitted with. The old weapons computer will be replaced by a newer model, of the kind that will be installed in the F-15I's. At the end of the improvement process, the F-15s will be fitted with avionics on a level similar to that of the F-16's.

On may 1st. 1983, a simulated dogfight training took place between two F-15D's and four A-4N Skyhawks over the skies of the Negev. The F-15D (# 957, nicknamed 'Markia Shchakim', 5 killmarks) was used for the conversion of a new pilot in the squadron. Here is the description of the event as described in "Pressure suit":

At some point I collided with one of the Skyhawks, at first I didn't realize it. I felt a big strike, and I thought we passed through the jet stream of one of the other aircraft. Before I could react, I saw the big fire ball created by the explosion of the Skyhawk. The radio started to deliver calls saying that the Skyhawk pilot has ejected, and I understood that the fire ball was the skyhawk, that exploded, and the pilot was ejected automatically.

There was a tremendous fuel stream going out of the wing, and I understood it was badly damaged. The aircraft flew without control in a strange spiral. I re-connected the electric control to the control surfaces, and slowly gained control on the aircraft until I was straight and level again. It was clear to me that I had to eject. When I gained control I said : "Hey, wait, don't eject yet!". No warning light was on and the navigation computer worked as usual; I just needed a warning light in my panel to indicate that I missed a wing..." The instructor ordered me to eject. The wing is a fuel tank, and the fuel indicator showed 0.000 so I assumed that the jet stream sucked all the fuel out of the other tanks. However, I remembered that the valves operate only in one direction, so that I might have enough fuel to get to the nearest airfield and land.

I worked like a machine, wasn't scared and didn't worry. All I knew was : as long as the sucker flies, I'm gonna stay inside. I started to decrease the airspeed, but at that point one wing was not enough. So I went into a spin down and to the right. A second before I decided to eject, I pushed the throttle and lit the afterburner. I gained speed and thus got control of the aircraft again. Next thing I did was lowering the arresting hook. A few seconds later I touched the runway at 260 knots, about twice the recommended speed, and called the tower to erect the emergency recovery net. The hook was torn away from the fuselage because of the high speed, but I managed to stop 10 meters before the net.

I turned back to shake the hand of my instructor, who urged me to eject, and then I saw it for the first time - no wing !!!

The IAF contacted McDonnel Douglas and asked for information about possibility to land an F-15 with one wing . MD replied that this is aerodynamically impossible, as confirmed by computer simulations... Then they received the photo....

After two months the same F-15 got a new wing and returned to action.

This is what "Flight international, 8 June 1985" wrote about the incident :

"The most outstanding Eagle save was by a pilot from a foreign air force. During air combat training his two seater F-15 was involved in a mid air collision with an A-4 Skyhawk. The A-4 crashed, and the Eagle lost it's right wing from about 2ft. outboard. After some confusion between the instructor who said eject, and the student who outranked his instructor and said no, the F-15 was landed at it's desert base. Touching down at 290 kt, the hook was dropped for an approach and engagement. This slowed the F-15 to 100 kt, when the hook weak link sheared, and the aircraft was then braked conventionally. It is said that the student was later demoted for disobeying his instructor, then promoted for saving the aircraft.

McDonnel Douglas attributes the saving of this aircraft to the amount of lift generated by the engine intake/body and "a hell of a good pilot".



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"Perhaps missing systems from the F-15E, but it has so many new, better israeli systems it more than makes up for it.."

Like what please explain the new systrms compared to what was taken out.

what was taken out? I know Elbit added new systems, I dont know if they are better than the US ones, but they did add new stuff.

Basically a whole new avionics suite, Litening pods, and stuff like that...

The F15I was an A model.


The F15E is vastly superior to the F15I.


I would know i flew them, And worked Test Group on them.