Sumku

OOE, I understand that and this clearly reflects in their existing inventory but still I am amazed by the quantum of money being spent here.

I am almost 100% sure that neither India nor China and definitely not Pakistan are spending this quatum of money that rapidly. I mean almost 6-7% of their GDP on defense.

I honestly dont know the relations between Turkey and Iran, Between Turkey and Syria, I know there are some disputes, but how is it between Turkey and Iran I am not sure. Between Turkey and Israel, I know there are very good relations.

Even if there are tensions between Turkey and Iran, Turkey already has quite a firepower over Iran with their existing inventory.

So why spend so much on modernisation when you are already a leader. China is not going to attack Turkey and nether is India or Pakistan or Russia. On top of it Turkey already is a member of NATO. So what is the need.

The claims like to my opinion are a little far fetched as is this one Spending that percentage of GDP on defence when there are no long-term threat perception, or when you already have massive Superiority over all known adversaries, is to me preparing for WWIII

TUSAS1

This is partly true Officer of Engineers....The Land Forces WAS ageing....However, to assert that it is dead or lacking the firepower would be a great injustice and dogmatic of the facts. Believe me the Land Forces currently is not as bad as you think it is. I can easily and with comfort state that they are well newer than their European counterparts. Post 2005 alot of things have changed with the Land Forces Command. They once again proved themselves during Operation Sun 3 months ago. It might be interesting to know that the Turkish Land Forces in nearly self-sufficient in terms of Arms procurement. Turkey produces APC, can modernize Tanks, manufactures its ammunition etc. Soon they will be self-sufficient with MBTS and Anti-tank missiles similar in calibre to the Hellfire II (OMTAS and UMTAS Anti-tank missiles- See below)

In my very lengthy factual posting above I did not digress too much into the total overhaul of the Land Forces Command, both technologically and structurally. Turkey's new Land Forces Modernization concept "Force 2014" which is nearly half complete aims to create a force with much more fire power and mobility. In summary it is along these lines: The new strategy is a 20% reduction in man-power, however with the development of a more potent, highly trained, technologically advanced, integrated Land Forces. Some of the new acquisitions are listed below:

Development of Indegenous Anti-tank missiles: Umtas and Omtas Similar to HellFire II Defense Technology International - September 2007
30 Bed Mobile Surgical Hospital and Mobile First Aid Stations
Nuclear Biological Chemical (NBC) Protective Suits Project
Special Purpose Tactical Wheeled Armored Vehicles Procurement Project
Turkish Mobile Floating Assault Briges Project
Weapon Carrier Vehicles Project
Wheeled Tactical Vehicles
Amphibious Armoured Combat Earthmovers Procurement
Field Artillery Ammunition Supply Vehicles Procurement
Tank Transporters and Semi-Traillers
Electronic Target Systems For Tank Firing Rangers
Leopard 1A1/A1A4 Tanks Improvement Project
M60 Tank Modernization Project (Sabra Modernization project of M60 Tanks- Turkey has 1000+ M60 Tanks)
New Command and Control Vehicles
Group- I New Armoured Combat Vehicles and Personnel Carriers
Group-II New Armoured Personnel Carriers
Tank Fire Control System
Turkish National Main Battle Tank Project (Plan for 1000+ Next Generation Indegenous MBT's)
KMS Systems
National Rifles and Snipers
Very small Unmanned Helicopters with Laptop for use in the theatre
Special Uniforms: Product of 10 years research (unable to be seen from space and insulating agaisnt extreme temperatures without affecting the mobility or comfort level of soldiers)
Towed Artilery

and this is just afew. For further information refer to Savunma Sanayii Müsteşarlığı - Ana Sayfa

Below are some Turkish Manufactured Land Forces Platforms which are currently in the inventory as of 2005

TUSAS1

Sumku, Turkey a former Empire has lost in exess of 2 million sq metres of land during World War I, It also has very unfriendly neighbours who want to wipe countries off the map. Add to this the fact that Turkey borders Cold War rivels Russia.... It is only natural for Turkey to have a strong armed forces. Turkeys strategy is DETERENCE. For this to work you must have a very very strong Military capability. Turkey will always try and have the upper hand in the region. This also suits the western free-world as we are the only democratic, staunchly secular, constitutional Republic in the region. We are also not governed by people who truly and sincerly believe that they are divine.

Officer of Engineers

1) You don't know what I think.
2) I know the Turks are extremely capable but NOT for any of the reasons you've cited. Like I said, there's a Turkish combat veteran on this board. He has found kindred spirit here and we can discuss operational details that would escape you.

Frankly, I don't care for all your toys that you've listed. I am more interested in the combat leaders ... as do the other veterans on this board.

__________________
Chimo

Officer of Engineers

He's a fan boy. I don't take him seriously.

TUSAS1

All the posts given above cannot be refuted. After all, we are in no position to know better than the US Central Intelligence Agency or the US Navy. All I have done is cut and paste data from non-Turkish sources as was requested. It is up to you to believe or not to believe the accuracy of government data. This will also reveal who is infact the real "fan boy".

TUSAS1

(1) I am no Military strategist and I dont claim to be one.
(2) Lets wait and see what the Turkish combat vetran will say...I'm sure it will be along my lines.
(3) What I mentioned was not in relation to operational details but rather defence procurement.

Also, i dont understand why sudenly whole forum is attacking me and my posts? Isn't the purpose of this forum to talk about anything and everything military?

TopHatter

I'm fairly certain that you are not imply that Officer of Engineers is a fan boy...am I correct?

Probably because you're trying to dictate 'facts' to military professionals who have lived and breathed on battlesfields what you are discussing from the safety and comfort of a computer desk.

You also might want read this post carefully Forum Guidelines (revised 2/15/07)

Officer of Engineers

You've already met him. He is the good Captain UCar and I know for a fact, he doesn't play who is the best game. The Turks are the 2nd best AF in Europe? Give me a break. And in case you've forgotten, those are not your nukes. They're American nukes.

Do a search on his post, the good Captain is a Professional Officer. Someone the rest of us can truly work with. I have no qualms of tasking him with any company level operation.

And as for refuting your posts, I ain't got the time nor the energy to care about fanboy fascination with toys. There's an old saying with the military. The mission 1st. The People Always. Frankly, you don't share either of those concerns.

TUSAS1

a

TopHatter

They are welcome.

And are you one of them?

TUSAS1

Sir, with all due respect....stating that the Turkish Air Force is second in Europe should not be a far fetched assertion....Just by looking at the European Air Forces current inventories, the Turkish Air Force can be compared with that of the Luftwaffe, RAF and the French Air Force. The TuAF currently has 519 combat aircraft according to the US Navy. These are 230 F-16, F-4 Terminator 2020, and F-5. They also have alot of combat experience and their pilots are not bad. They have one of the highest number of flight hours after the US Air Force.

Unlike some others on this forum which I have seen, I am not stating that Turkey is a superpower. I am making assertions based on very reputable government documents.

TUSAS1

Yes.

Shipwreck

Source ?

__________________
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God" (Matthew 5:9)

TUSAS1

Heres what the US Military say about the reason why Turkey has a strong Armed Force: