YellowFever

Reading about the Mig-21's kill ratio in another thread peaked my curiosity that maybe one of you can answer.

We know about the 100+ to zero kill ratio of the F-15.

I was wondering what the kill ratio was for other planes.

Is there a website that deals with this particular subject or do some of you have figures?

I'd really be interested in knowing the kill ratios of each individual fighter A/Cs over the past 2 or 3 decades or so.

(Umm....and I hope you keep the "the kill ratio for that A/C wasn't that good because of second rate arab pilots were flying it" argument to a minimum...LoL)

Thanks.

Captain Drunk

Su-30s scored a kill ratio of 9:1 over US F-15s during an exercise.
Cope India 2004
Gwalior AFS

HistoricalDavid

No AWACS
Short-ranged SARH missiles
Average-rota pilots versus best InAF pilots
outnumbered 3:1
No AESA radar

Cope India = refuted time and time again

The F-15 is the one with a 105:0 kill ratio in real, live combat, not DACT exercises designed to flatter the InAF and make the case for the F-22A.

Captain Drunk

No AWACS for IAF fighters as well
Short-ranged R-60MKs, R-73RDM2s and medium-ranged R-27RE1/TE1s
The most unskilled IAF pilots(only they'd get to fly ancient Mig-21s) vs. most skilled USAF pilots(only they'd get to fly F-15s )
No Ibris Bars radar

Cope India = Better DACT comparison than the USAF F-16s losing to Luftwaffe Mig-29s.

The_Burning_Kid

I wouldn't waste time on this joker. He aint even worth debating. I say we ignore him as he's obviously a troll (its been tried, but hey lets try it again).

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HistoricalDavid

AWACS assets of USAF considerably superior and would be present in any engagement.

MBDA Mica as well. Still better than old SARH missiles.

You were talking about Su-30MKIs, not MiG-21s.

The most skilled USAF pilots would get to fly F-22As, not non-Elmendorf F-15Cs. There are also lots of F-15Cs with lots of pilots - not exactly the most exclusive aircraft.

It isn't in service anyway, and by virtue of being PESA it is generally inferior to AESA.

'Better', not 'good'.

Anyway, non-sequitor.

leib10

The next person who quotes Cope India is gonna get slapped in the face.

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Tronic

pointless thread..... it'll just turn into another MiG bashing..... just like using the Cope India 04 kill ratio isn't feesible since the IAF held advantage; in real life situations, the MiGs were in worse handicapped conditions then the USAF in Cope India 04.... so its not feesible to compare the kill ratios to judge the better aircraft.....

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joey2

captain dont bring cope-india always .. its nothing but a balant show off to the senators for their f22 budgets and some show off to our commies to increase some more budget.
if we are good we shouldnt boast about it captain and cope india doesnt do justice to the skills of pilots, so rather not boast and brag about a result and concentrate on real developement.

YellowFever

Man...I was feeling pretty good when I started this thread last night.
I was really interested in the kill-ratios of each individual types of aircraft and I thought since I would say 95% of you know more about this crap than I do, I'd post my question rather than look it up as it'll create more interesting debate this way.
I wake up this morning and a virus known as Captain Drunk had infected my thread.

Oh well..

To reset this thread:

The Harrier is supposedly to have a very good kill ratio against Argentine planes during the Falkland. Does anyone have hard numbers and circumstances of the kills?

The Indian Mig-21 suppopsedly killed four Starfighters during the conflict in 1971. Is this the only aerial duel during that conflict?

I guess asking the kill-ratios of each plane is a bit much.
How about the kill-ratio of each conflicts?

Did the Brits lose any A/C due to air to air engagements during the Falklands?

joey2

My dear yellowfever well yeah i think i've read somewhere Mig made a kill ratio almost like Israel [6:1) so a 4:1 is entirely possible.. sorry but i dont remember the source ejjactly read it long back.

Tronic

not 4; 6 confirmed Starfighter kills.... The F-86 Sabre is the one which got mauled in that war though....

Well.... the Harriers came out without a single loss in combat and they managed to down around 20 Mirages and Skyhawks... however I think around 4 Harriers were lost in accidents...

HistoricalDavid

http://www.naval-history.net/F63braircraftlost.htm

None lost in A2A. Quite a few elsewhere.

http://www.naval-history.net/F64argaircraftlost.htm

hello

Captain Drunk made the first reply in this thread, so obviously it was bound to go the way of all those other threads which became everyone-vs-CD wars.

I think some IAF Hawker Hunters also shot down some Sabres in the 1971 conflict, though I don't know the numbers. Whatever it was, the Sabre didn't perform too well there, unlike in Korea, where it was the equivalent to the modern F-22, beating the MiG-15 700-something to 76(air combat losses only). In Vietnam, the F-4 didn't have such good ratios although still better than the MiG-21, but in some stages it fell to 2-1, with a Phantom downed for every pair of MiGs, I've heard.

Tronic

Pakistan lost a good deal of Sabres... infact, I think that Pakistan lost more F-86 Sabres then any other aircraft... and yeah the Hunters have a lot of kills against the Sabres but the aircraft which got to weild the title "Sabre killer" was the Gnat(which was quite surprising as it happened to be the smallest aircraft at that time)...
no.. you're hugely exagurating the difference between the Sabre and the Mig-15... The Mig-15 could do a lot of stuff that the Sabre couldn't do.... For one, it had the advantage of being able to fly higher then the Sabre thus the Mig-15 pilots could decide when and where they wanted to engage and were in a superior position to start with... second, the Mig-15s cannon rounds were far more powerful then the Sabres' but far less accurate... and third, the Mig-15 could take a very heavy beating and still make it back to base.... the Sabre on the other hand had the advantage of a Gyro Sight which made it very accurate and second the very important advantage the Sabre held was that it's pilots were wearing G-Suits... the Mig-15 pilots were flying without....

I'm pretty sure the USAF lost way more aircraft then 76...

That was because in the early stages of the Vietnam war USAF pilots were restricted to fire their payload until they had indentified their targets which meant the USAF aircraft had to fly in close to their targets... and when that happened even the very ill-trained Vietnamese pilots with Mig-21s gave the American aircraft a very hard time... The first 3 years into the Vietnam war, the USAF lost more then 400 aircraft... by the end of the war, the rules of engagement had changed and the USAF now started firing BVR Sparrow missiles... and the kill ratio started turning in favour of the Americans again...