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Thread: MRCA Competition

  1. #61
    ? Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by itchynuts
    I don't know why you people trying so hard making Me a Chinese, which i'm not? Is it because you think that most people here are anti-chinese commie bastards..
    By making one of them, you Indians become credible, because everyone here hate these commies?LOL

    These Indians on the internet act like they know Me more than Myself.LMfAO!

    Since you Indians only like to hear only propaganda lies, not the truth...

    Here you go...I'm 300% Chinese. Hope you happy now! LOL

    Bye Bye. Have a lice sleep...Me it a Chinis...g night!



    India is the best! Good! Good!

    'What????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????
    Last edited by urmomma158; 07 Sep 06, at 19:23.

  2. #62
    Arzi Hukumat-e-Azad Hind Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by urmomma158
    'What????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????
    let the commie go...
    Nabha Sparasham Deeptam
    -Touch The Sky With Glory

  3. #63
    Senior Contributor Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by itchynuts View Post
    oh no my remarks was not against Mr.highsea, it was towards the indianguy.lol. highsea made some good points though, but still no concrete proof.lol

    i have nothing to be ashame of being chinese, but i am not! i'm 100% slovenian born, currently live in australia. i have alot of interest in east asian affair, i've spend alot of time reading stuff from these countries, so when some idiots disinfroming...it annoy me.
    LOL, next you'll be martian born living on pluto..

    please stop making alot of noise so that the point that india being unskilled enough make the MKIs with TOT from russia lost in the chaos.
    India is quite skilled enough to make its MKIs...perhaps the real reason is that your real home didnt get a chance to make anything comparable..
    Last edited by Archer; 07 Sep 06, at 23:59.
    Karmani Vyapurutham Dhanuhu

    My bow is stretched for its task

  4. #64
    Senior Contributor kams's Avatar
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    Mig-21 Bison nightmare

    Here we go again. TOI reports on low servicibility of Mig-21 Bison (33% ) IAF says situation has improved to around 70%. I for one don't think India should go for Mig-35, instaed should select any western (except for Rafale - just to teach French some lesson) fighters. Atleast they will fly, not sit on the bloody tarmac all the time.

    IAF mig-21 bison

  5. #65
    Senior Contributor Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kams View Post
    Here we go again. TOI reports on low servicibility of Mig-21 Bison (33% ) IAF says situation has improved to around 70%. I for one don't think India should go for Mig-35, instaed should select any western (except for Rafale - just to teach French some lesson) fighters. Atleast they will fly, not sit on the bloody tarmac all the time.

    IAF mig-21 bison

    When the Jaguars first came in, they werent any better. All things take time to resolve (and proper maint facilities)- note most of the stuff in the Bison is spanking new- Kopyo, INS (Sagem), etc etc..IIRC the MTBF for the Kopyo was to be 250, in IAF it was found to be TEN, and is now upto 110...so you gotta work at it..
    Karmani Vyapurutham Dhanuhu

    My bow is stretched for its task

  6. #66
    Banned Captain Drunk's Avatar
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    My guess is that India will go in for the upgraded Mig-29s, converting its older fleet into SMT / SMT II standard. Like their Mig-21s that got converted to deadly BVR Mig-21-93 standards as capable as PAFs F-16As, they're bound to upgrade all Mig-29s with Flanker missiles / avionics until its roughly comparable to older version F-15s. Migs surely are very cost affective western aircraft are just too costly and not worth it, maintaining a twin-engined Mig-29 would still be less costly than an F-16.

  7. #67
    Arzi Hukumat-e-Azad Hind Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
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    why would we pass up the oppurtunity on the F/A-18E/Fs with AESA??? in the longer run, the F-18s are suppose to be cheaper then the Mig-29s simply because they have a longer engine life...
    Nabha Sparasham Deeptam
    -Touch The Sky With Glory

  8. #68
    Banned Captain Drunk's Avatar
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    Are you nuts? An F-18EF costs USD 95 million, thats the latest price going. You can buy 2 Mig-29s with full ordinance for that same price. Look at the way Pakistan has just backed out of going ahead with those 36 F-16s the US was offering. They said those F-16s didn't come with "vital components" as they had hoped and whether they meant AIM-120s or AESA radars no one knows.

    Frankly the F-18EF with AESA is total BS, in the world of BVR its another F-5 Tiger, in my considered opinion. Its just too expensive and not worthy for that price. We've seen the wonders of the Mig-21-93 how it beat the F-5, F-8, etc. and Mig-29 SMT / SMT 2s and later versions are roughly comparable to the F-15, western sources say themselves.

    Also longer engine life would mean more maintainence, more cost for the F-18s. They'd even need different hangers I've heard, if we opted for them - a whole diff. infrastructure. Pilot familiarisation would also be a big problem, Fulcrum pilots could easily be upgraded to SMT standards.
    Last edited by Captain Drunk; 26 Sep 06, at 09:37.

  9. #69
    joey2
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    Archer seriously F18E with AESA? god i'd be so disappointed if india gets that.
    F18e is one a big fighter to maintain too.... since India got the Rd33k engine for local production i dont see why should india go for F18.the US foreign policy is designed in such a way it is bound to have strings attached! and we are not gonna abide by them.source codes + tot is what india seeks. do you think we are nuts enough to go for something whose jamming code is already in the hands of the allys of US. if india goes for F18 "only a squadron or so.." it'll be entirely political decision.

    my best bet would be a couple squadron of rafale with meteor + mig 35 with russian AESA "in developement".
    remember we can always put tht russian AESA in our NAVAL LCA and also in our LCA in 2010 which will have the kaveri.
    LCA with AESA wud be deadly little bird.
    The RD33k has 5000 hours of engine life compared to Rd33 which is 1000 right?

    Captain if ur affiliarted rto IAF tell them not to have F18 for GODS SAKE.cuz i know sooner or later we'll test icbm and we'll be sanctioned.

    The BEST part of buying russian hardware is thery gives the cource codes only to us, and some to china.
    other smaller natiopns doesnt even needs them as they are happy on a outright purchase.
    so the source code stays a secret among 2 nation and the biggest advantage is we guys can change alter and have reverse jamming codes too....
    Last edited by joey2; 26 Sep 06, at 09:47.

  10. #70
    Senior Contributor YellowFever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tronic View Post
    let the commie go...
    ROFLOL!

    Tronic..you a-hole!

    You made me spill my coffee all over my keyobard......

  11. #71
    Contributor The_Burning_Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Drunk View Post
    Are you nuts? An F-18EF costs USD 95 million, thats the latest price going. You can buy 2 Mig-29s with full ordinance for that same price. Look at the way Pakistan has just backed out of going ahead with those 36 F-16s the US was offering. They said those F-16s didn't come with "vital components" as they had hoped and whether they meant AIM-120s or AESA radars no one knows.

    Frankly the F-18EF with AESA is total BS, in the world of BVR its another F-5 Tiger, in my considered opinion. Its just too expensive and not worthy for that price. We've seen the wonders of the Mig-21-93 how it beat the F-5, F-8, etc. and Mig-29 SMT / SMT 2s and later versions are roughly comparable to the F-15, western sources say themselves.

    Also longer engine life would mean more maintainence, more cost for the F-18s. They'd even need different hangers I've heard, if we opted for them - a whole diff. infrastructure. Pilot familiarisation would also be a big problem, Fulcrum pilots could easily be upgraded to SMT standards.
    The F/A-18E costs $55 million with the F costing $59 million. I don't know where your getting $95 million. And the Pakistani purchase was delayed not because of technical problems but because of the earthquake. They had to divert funding for that to the earthquake relief projects. And where the hell did you hear that BS that the MiG-21 beat the F-5, and the MiG-29 SMT is as good as the F-15? That's total BS. Stop BSing and go read the facts. The MiG-29 isn't even in the class of the F-15, let alone comparable.

  12. #72
    Senior Contributor kams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Burning_Kid View Post
    The F/A-18E costs $55 million with the F costing $59 million. I don't know where your getting $95 million. And the Pakistani purchase was delayed not because of technical problems but because of the earthquake. They had to divert funding for that to the earthquake relief projects. And where the hell did you hear that BS that the MiG-21 beat the F-5, and the MiG-29 SMT is as good as the F-15? That's total BS. Stop BSing and go read the facts. The MiG-29 isn't even in the class of the F-15, let alone comparable.
    Err. by now you must know better than to argue with CD . How about buying Mig-21s , may be you can get 10 for the price of one F/A-18 E/F

  13. #73
    Senior Contributor kams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Drunk View Post
    Are you nuts? An F-18EF costs USD 95 million, thats the latest price going. You can buy 2 Mig-29s with full ordinance for that same price. Look at the way Pakistan has just backed out of going ahead with those 36 F-16s the US was offering. They said those F-16s didn't come with "vital components" as they had hoped and whether they meant AIM-120s or AESA radars no one knows.
    .
    Captain Dunk,

    It would be wise of you to do a little googling before posting all BS. F-16 offered to Pakistan never had AESA. Only problem media is saying with those F-16 is their RWR will not have NATO fighters signatures in the library. Now work it out yourself what does that mean for PAF.

    It's not only engine life, but reliability, MTBF etc for all major components. Normally MTBF for Russian equipment suck big time leading poor availability as well as high life cycle costs.

    Finally big ticket defence deals are never black and white.

  14. #74
    Arzi Hukumat-e-Azad Hind Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YellowFever View Post
    ROFLOL!

    Tronic..you a-hole!

    You made me spill my coffee all over my keyobard......
    sorry... didn't mean to... I swear!!!



    Quote Originally Posted by kams
    Captain Dunk,

    It would be wise of you to do a little googling before posting all BS. F-16 offered to Pakistan never had AESA. Only problem media is saying with those F-16 is their RWR will not have NATO fighters signatures in the library. Now work it out yourself what does that mean for PAF.
    I think one of the reasons the F-16 deal with Pak was pushed was because India simply didn't have a big enough threat that she couldn't handle... maybe they figured a couple of F-16s will get IAF running for AESA and hence tilt the deal more in favour of the F-18... not that we desperately need AESA... but its always better to maintain this huge edge over your opponent....

    It's not only engine life, but reliability, MTBF etc for all major components. Normally MTBF for Russian equipment suck big time leading poor availability as well as high life cycle costs.
    yes, the sorry state of the early Mig-29s to India confirm that....
    Nabha Sparasham Deeptam
    -Touch The Sky With Glory

  15. #75
    Senior Contributor kams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tronic View Post
    sorry... didn't mean to... I swear!!!




    I think one of the reasons the F-16 deal with Pak was pushed was because India simply didn't have a big enough threat that she couldn't handle... maybe they figured a couple of F-16s will get IAF running for AESA and hence tilt the deal more in favour of the F-18... not that we desperately need AESA... but its always better to maintain this huge edge over your opponent....


    yes, the sorry state of the early Mig-29s to India confirm that....

    Well F-16 made perfect sense for PAF. F-16's are proven, are good, and they were already using them. Along with the very potent weapons package Pakistan ordered, they are formidable. (JDAM, AMRAAM Aim-120C).

    F/A-18 E/F is a good battle proven fighter. Don't forget low RCS, and all the latest weaponary you may get - AIM-120D, JDAM which may come with the fighter.

    While both rafale and typoon are good, they don't have anything close to AMRAAM AIM-120D yet. (Yes Meteor, but is it in service yet?)

    Mig-29? look at latest Mig-21 Bison, best servicibility is 70%, i.e 1/3 of the fighters we paid for are not flying at any given time and thats the best case scenario. Do you remember grounding of KA-31? I can go on and on, but when you have cash to spend, then Mig will be the last one I would like to spend on.

    There was a news item posted in BR quoting a French diplomat that IAF is gonna split the order b/w American and European aircraft.

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