I just don't get it...

**YellowFever** · 14 Aug 06,, 06:37

Can someone explain the politics/ financial situation that prevents the USAF from buying more Raptors?

Seems to me the price of these babies are pretty high but as pointed out by numerous people on this board, the more copies you buy, the cheaper it gets.

It also seems that the Raptor will do most of the things the JSF will do and do it better.

So why aren't we purchasing about thousand plus Raptors and just cancel the JSF altogether?

I'm sure if we bought enough F-22's, the price will drop to the JSF's level.

Politics? or something else I'm not aware of??

**Bill** · 14 Aug 06,, 06:43

The Iraq occupation is sucking the military budget dry.

We need to get the hell out of there so we can invade someone else.(the list aint getting any shorter)

**leib10** · 14 Aug 06,, 07:22

Hehe well I guess that's one way to look at it. Unfortunately it's true.

**YellowFever** · 14 Aug 06,, 07:30

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

The Iraq occupation is sucking the military budget dry.

We need to get the hell out of there so we can invade someone else.(the list aint getting any shorter)

This is true.

However, even with Iraq sucking the military budget dry, we are still going forward with the buying of the Raptor AND developing of the JSF.

And wouldn't it make more sense to just buy the Raptor instead of developing the JSF due to the fact that buying a couple thousand of them will be more cost effective than developing the JSF?

There's gotta be something else..

**-{SpoonmaN}-** · 14 Aug 06,, 07:38

The US Military costs too much money. Either raise your taxes, or start making some VERY drastic measures to chew every last bit of fat off that budget so it can be allocated to things that really matter for the US Armed Forces. I'd start by reviewing every last reconstruction contract the DoD has handed out in Iraq because it sounds like most of them were very poorly handled and a whole lot of money that could have been spent on buying more Raptors etc. has been wasted. I guess this is what you get for having Donald Rumsfeld as SecDef and Dick Cheney, who was probably the worst person to hold the former position in recent times, as VP.
That, and you're wasting lots of good money on the Osprey.

**-{SpoonmaN}-** · 14 Aug 06,, 07:41

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

The Iraq occupation is sucking the military budget dry.

We need to get the hell out of there so we can invade someone else.(the list aint getting any shorter)

Why so you have to invade the place all over again in 15-20 years? Gotta finish the job. Ironically, if the Bush Admin had the slightest clue what they were doing when they invaded they would have given the Military enough resources to actually occupy the place properly from the get-go and this crap may never have happened.

**Stan** · 14 Aug 06,, 13:04

also the JSF has alot more possible customers than the raptor. also the thing is the raptor would only be on sale to a very very very small select few

**nutter** · 14 Aug 06,, 16:04

Well, I think it's inevitable that the US air force is going to be smaller for the forseeable future.

Yes yes.... the US is currently on a "War against those not like us" campaign, but really, with the demise of the USSR, there's not really any airforce of significant size *and* technological prowess to compete - at least until China becomes the next superpower.

So, without a credible adversary air force, it's a bit hard to justify.

Besides, with the F22 being more maintainable, requiring less maintenance hours, able to cover more distance (supercruise), being currently able to convincingly win at 10:1 odds, etc... you require less aircraft compared to the previous generation, to do the same job. An F22 requiring say 5 hours maintenance per flight hour instead of 15 (random figures, just to illustrate the point), means 3x less aircraft in the hangar being worked on.

Yes, the more you buy, the cheaper they get, but you still end up spending more money than if you bought a lesser amount

I doubt the F22 would ever drop to JSF price level, the technology is simply too advanced. It's in a TOTALLY different class with regards to power:weight for a start...

**gunnut** · 14 Aug 06,, 18:32

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

The Iraq occupation is sucking the military budget dry.

We need to get the hell out of there so we can invade someone else.(the list aint getting any shorter)

I bet the democrats can get some republicans to go with their "cut and run" plan if they attach an amendment to invade someone else.

**gunnut** · 14 Aug 06,, 18:34

Originally Posted by -{SpoonmaN}-

The US Military costs too much money. Either raise your taxes,

impossible

Originally Posted by -{SpoonmaN}-

or start making some VERY drastic measures to chew every last bit of fat off that budget so it can be allocated to things that really matter for the US Armed Forces.

impossible

Originally Posted by -{SpoonmaN}-

I'd start by reviewing every last reconstruction contract the DoD has handed out in Iraq because it sounds like most of them were very poorly handled and a whole lot of money that could have been spent on buying more Raptors etc. has been wasted. I guess this is what you get for having Donald Rumsfeld as SecDef and Dick Cheney, who was probably the worst person to hold the former position in recent times, as VP.
That, and you're wasting lots of good money on the Osprey.

The money and effort to do that kind of review cancels out the savings.

The best way to save money is to downsize the government and dissolve public employees unions.

Unfortunately that's also impossible.

**Bill** · 15 Aug 06,, 02:00

Originally Posted by YellowFever

This is true.

However, even with Iraq sucking the military budget dry, we are still going forward with the buying of the Raptor AND developing of the JSF.

And wouldn't it make more sense to just buy the Raptor instead of developing the JSF due to the fact that buying a couple thousand of them will be more cost effective than developing the JSF?

There's gotta be something else..

I agree with you 100%.

I've said many times i'd cancel JSF yesterday. IMO, the only service that needs JSF is the USN to get a stealth bird on the flattops.

**Bill** · 15 Aug 06,, 02:02

Originally Posted by -{SpoonmaN}-

Why so you have to invade the place all over again in 15-20 years? Gotta finish the job. Ironically, if the Bush Admin had the slightest clue what they were doing when they invaded they would have given the Military enough resources to actually occupy the place properly from the get-go and this crap may never have happened.

I understand that, i didnt call for a sudden pullout, i merely made a very prescient observation....that being that as long as we're there, we can do nothing about the other nutcases that are springing up all over the world nowadays.

**Bill** · 15 Aug 06,, 02:04

Originally Posted by nutter

Yes yes.... the US is currently on a "War against those not like us" campaign, but really, with the demise of the USSR, there's not really any airforce of significant size *and* technological prowess to compete - at least until China becomes the next superpower.

Um, we're in a "War with islamists that want to kill us no matter what the personal cost".

**-{SpoonmaN}-** · 15 Aug 06,, 07:35

Originally Posted by STAN

also the JSF has alot more possible customers than the raptor. also the thing is the raptor would only be on sale to a very very very small select few

Actually the stated rule is not to sell it to anyone at all because its so precious.

**-{SpoonmaN}-** · 15 Aug 06,, 07:37

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

I agree with you 100%.

I've said many times i'd cancel JSF yesterday. IMO, the only service that needs JSF is the USN to get a stealth bird on the flattops.

LOL and what the hell are your allies like us supposed to do? We want stealth planes too.