Anon

We'll see. It should be more than twice as high as what you're spending now IMO. About 5% of GDP.

At 5%, Aus could afford easily afford the F-22....and imagine this....TANKS.

It amazes me, the Pennsylvania NATIONAL GUARD is many times more powerful than the entire Aus Army and AF combined.(and also probably more powerful than 90% of the countries in Europe)

It really is sad.

ashkon

Aus military a joke? In your opinion yes, which goes to show you have NFI.
We are not greatest fighting force in the world but we are not exactly 'dad's army' either, do your research and find out how the aussies did in WW2, Vietnam (battle of long tan), Iraq,etc.
I,ve talked to alot of US serviceman who have nothing but the utmost respect for the Aussie troops, yes we don't have stealth bombers,nukes and nimitz class aircraft carriers(we could do with alot of things) but we do pretty darn well for what we,ve got.

Oh and feel free to bring down the pennsylvania NG for a training exercise anytime.

Anon

Son, i've forgotten more about military matters than you'll probably ever know.

Tell me. How many tanks does Australia have, and when were they built?

Pennsylvania Army national guard roster:

"28th Infantry Division (Mechanized)

2nd Brigade Combat Team(forward)
2nd Brigade Combat Team (Rear)
213th Area Support Group
1067th Transportation Company
109th Mobile Public Affairs Detachment (FIG)
131st Transportation Company
154th Quartermaster Battalion (POL)
228th Transportation Detachment
3622nd Maintenance Company (FIG)
Company G (-), 104th Aviation (FIG)
Det 1, Company F, 192nd Aviation (FIG)
Detachment 1, Company G, 104th Aviation
104th Infantry Detachment (LRS) (FIG)
128th Chemical Company
1st Battalion, 213th Air Defense Artillery
28th Division Artillery
1st Battalion, 107th Field Artillery
HHB(-) 1st Bn 107th Field Artillery
1st Battalion, 108th Field Artillery
109th Field Artillery
Headquarters & Headquarters Battery 109th FA
1st Battalion, 109th Field Artillery
Battery A 1st Battalion 109th Field Artillery
Battery B 1st Battalion 109th Field Artillery
Battery C 1st Battalion 109th Field Artillery
Battery F (Target Acquisition), 109th Field Artillery
Battery D, 229th Field Artillery
28th Division Engineering Brigade
103rd Engineer Battalion
Company B, 103rd Engineer Battalion
337th Engineer Battalion
28th Division Support Command
128th Support Battalion (FSB)
228th Support Battalion (FSB) (FIG)
328th Support Battalion (FSB)
628th Aviation Support Battalion (FIG)
HSC 628th Spt Bn (AVN)
A Company 628th Aviation Support Battalion
728th Support Battalion (MSB)
Co. B 728th MSB
28th Infantry - 2nd Brigade
1st Battalion (Mech), 110th Infantry
Co. C (-) 1st Bn 110th Infantry (Mech)
DET 1 Co. C 1st -110th INF (M)
876th Engineer Battalion
1st Battalion, 103rd Armor
B Company, 1st Bn, 103rd Armor
C Company, 1st Bn, 103rd Armor
28th Infantry - 55th Brigade
HHC 55th Brigade
1st Battalion (Mech), 109th Infantry
2nd Battalion, 103rd Armor
3rd Battalion, 103rd Armor
28th Infantry - 56th Stryker Brigade Combat Team
1st Battalion, 111th Infantry
1st Battalion, 112th Infantry
2nd Battalion, 112th Infantry
2nd Squadron (RSTA), 104th Cavalry
Troop B, 2nd Squadron (RSTA),104th Cavalry
1st Battalion, 108th Field Artillery
328th Brigade Support Battalion (BSB)
Company D, 112th Infantry (Anti-Tank)
556th Military Intelligence Compqny
656th Signal Company
856th Engineer Company
28th Infantry Detachment (RTOC)
28th Infantry Division Band
28th Military Police Company
28th Signal Battalion
628th Military Intelligence Battalion (Cadre)
28th Aviation Brigade (FIG)
1st Battalion (ATK), 104th Aviation
1st Squadron, 104th Cavalry (FIG)
TRP -B 1-104th Cavalry
2nd Battalion (ATK), 104th Aviation (FIG)
Companies C and D(-), 2nd Battalion, 104th Aviation
Company H (ATS), 104th Aviation (FIG)
Detachment 22, Operational Support Airlift Command (FIG)
HQ 166th Regiment (Combat Arms) (FIG)
1st Battalion, 166th Regiment (Armor) (FIG)
3rd Battalion, 166th Regiment (NCO Academy) (FIG)
4th Battalion, 166th Regiment (General Studies) (FIG)

As i said, the Pa National Guard would CRUSH the Aus Army, unless you have some plan to stop 3 heavily reinforced US Army heavy Brigade Combat Teams (Baghdad was conquered with basically just one- for a cost of 2 M1 tanks).

-{SpoonmaN}-

Individual ADF units are good, but the whole package is woefully inadequate. I don't know if you're so right about the EU, France and Germany both have pretty decent if undersized Military Forces to throw around. And you're right, if we spent 5% of our GDP in defence (i'm not asking for that much unless it becomes vital) we could be pretty impressively armed with a larger surface fleet, far larger sealift capacity and of course a bigger AF (I still wouldn't go with the Raptor, sue me but I just figure the SuperBug is the optimal choice for us over everything else, because we dont NEED the Raptor). We could have an Army with 4 brigades with 12 reinforced battalions (a man can dream) and maybe, just maybe, a few more than 22 attack helos (I'm not joking). I've been perpetually turning this over in my head for about 3 years, and I figure the optimal thing for us to do would be to limit ourselves to having maybe a group of 25 tanks for each Brigade to save money and face up to the fact that we can live without them. We have to work with what we have, so I figure we could focus on expanding our Cavalry forces and buying up more APCs for the infantry, but this isn't going to happen in any large way fast enough. It'll be gradual I'm afraid.

__________________
"I have this to say to the people of Australia: Kick me, I'm different."

usplanefan67

Dont get me wrong I love the Raptor its an excellent plane, but no it wont do all the JSF can do they were built to compliment each other that and the JSF avionics are a generation ahead of the F-22. The JSF has more ground attack capabilities with a mix of air superiority as a fighter the F-22 is an air dominance fighter with very limted ground attack capabilities.

Anon

F-35 has even more limited A2A capabilities than the F-22 has A2G.

Given my choice, the F-22 wins in a landslide. It's not even close.

spittle8

"But we will never forgive you guys for Paul Hogan. "

Crocodile Dundee was AWESOME

"Except the US is in a unique position to be able to afford such a debt and continue to spend. We, drive the world's economy. People throw money at us (buying our debt). Normally people ask to borrow money. In our case, people buy our debt. We dictate the terms of how people lend us their hard earned money."

Thank you. I was run off a (European) board a while back for making that argument. They were FURIOUS. But, if our economy failed all of a sudden, I'm willing to bet the world would basically collapse. Kissinger agrees with me.

Anon

So do i.

The_Burning_Kid

Actually from what I've heard, the F-35 is suppose to have awesome air-to-air abilities, second only to the F-22 Raptor.

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ashkon

Tanks? 90 Leopard 1's built in the early 70's, with 59 M1A1 Abrams on order.

The point i'm trying to get across is not about Australia winning a war against the US, i'm just curious to see why you think the Aus military has no credibility. If our army is so weak and pathetic,then why are we on Mr Bush's shortlist when he asks for coalition forces to contribute to peacekeeping efforts and wars?

Bluesman

Because they'll come EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Review my posts in the 'America's best ally' thread. I think I was at the top of my form in that one.

__________________
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell

Bluesman

Triple C

Hell yeah. To quote from my favorite Frenchman, "It is fashionable to be anti-American... but without America, the world will explode."

Anon

Ya heard wrong bro.

Bluesman

F-15s would own 'em. All other things being equal, which, of course, they never are.