Stan

when are we likely to see in war games these two planes duke it out and when/ if we do what are we likely to find out?

btw been reading these forums for quite some time now finally registered cos i wanted to find out peoples opinions on this

HistoricalDavid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RED_FLAG_exercise

Probably.

JCSVT

I'm a big Eurofighter fan but it's gonna have same issue as the Super Hornet. It will have to be in a very close WVR engagement to challenge the F-22.

I suspect that the Super Hornet and Raptor crews have been doing some training together after all the Raptors at Langley were moved to NAS Oceana.

PubFather

AFAIK they have already been in exercises together - although not in a "dog-fight" style engagement. IIRC there are two Typhoons stateside(or were) from the Operational Evaluation Unit(OEU).

I believe the Typhoons were flying "top cover" for the strike force in an exercise. It ended badly for the strike force as they were all shot down shortly after take-off... lol.

There was a rumour that the Typhoon had been able to "see" the Raptor at one stage - although I believe this was during take-off (presumably from the landing gear?).

Before anyone asks me for a source - I read this on another forum. Will try and find the post and get back to peeps...

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highsea

Hahaha, the Typhoons shot the Raptors on the runway, huh.

The gear doors would probably show up if you were at the right angle, there is a lot of junk in there...

I do know that one British pilot has just recently completed qualifying flights on the F-22. I doubt we will see any DACT exercises between the two types though.

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highsea

That's a little misleading, AFAIK only 12 Raptors went to NAS Oceana on their return from Alaska (due to runway repairs at Langley). The 27FS and 94FS will still be based in Langley on a permanent basis.

avon1944

I agree, neither air forces want the negative publicity, should things not go their way in ACM. Even if you do it in secret, someone -somehow would tell and the word would be out.
As Gen Jumper said, the F-22 can do all the things the Typhoon can do and the F-22 has in addition supercruise and stealth.
I found this chart on the Internet, where I don't remember. I was surprised at the envelope of the F-22. I would imagine this envelope will be the performance after all the planned upgrades are made.

Adrian

Attached Images

F-22_Vs_EF2000.gif (107.7 KB, 649 views)

-{SpoonmaN}-

The way I see it, the Eurofighter is a top-notch plane for a high price, the Raptor is an above top-notch plane for a stupendous price. They're meant for different customers who do different things, and who definately aren't going to be fighting eachother for the forseeable future, but in a 1-1, the Raptor wins.

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PubFather

Agree totally - the Typhoon wouldnt cut it against the Raptor, anymore than any other current jet.

A hypothetical for the intelligent people - Tranche 2 Typhoons will have PIRATE, an IRST system. Hypothetically (again) at what range could the Raptor engage the Typhoon with a high PK shot from a AMRAAM C7? Assume both a/c are flying around 60,000 ft and supercruising (Mach 1.8 for Raptor, 1.3 for the Typhoon).

Just interested because BAE have been marketing PIRATE pretty hard as a "stealthy" alternative to the CAPTOR radar....

Stan

personally im of the opinion we should be ready to begin the rnd for the next fighter for the european countries and i hope they already have.

with the way the world is going europe needs to close the gap between its self and the usa and maintain a lead over china.

when eventually we have a united states of europe (god willing) we will play an important role in keeping the peace between china and usa. best we have the hardware to keep both in check

HistoricalDavid

How would European hardware keep the USA 'in check'?

-{SpoonmaN}-

It wouldn't but if you guys could make your own stealth platform similar to the JSF but without the political strings attatched to it's sale (France are a big fan of this) then you might be able to make a killing of nations frustrated by the touchy issue of tech transfers and cost overruns. That and you wouldn't have to waste time and money on what was probably the over-ambitious F-35B style supersonic stealth jump-jet.

highsea

Are we talking about the same China? The China that has at various times in the past 50 years or so claimed territory throughout the South Pacific, Indian Ocean, Russia, India, and as far away as Alaska? The China that threatens Taiwan, annexed Tibet, sent troops into India 2 or 3 times, fought wars with virtually all it's neighbors, is causing unrest in Nepal, and supplied missiles to North Korea and Pakistan? You know, that big communist country in Asia with expansionist goals and dreams of empire? That China?

Nice to know you think Europe needs to keep the US in check. Who was it again that stood by in defense of Western Europe, South Korea, and Japan for the last 50 years?

As the saying goes, with friends like you, who needs enemies?

And BTW, the best hardware in the world is of no value if you don't have the will to use it.

tphuang

China is not evil. It did not annex Tibet. It had been part of every Chinese dynasty in the last 1000 years. It was part of China when the nationalists ruled. It threatens Taiwan, because Taiwan was part of China until 1949. It's not causing unrest in Nepal. It simply believes dealing with whichever government in power. It supplies missiles to North Korea and Pakistan, because it has long history with them.

And just what kind of expansionist goals do you think China has? It already solved the border disputes with the Russians. It's working on the border dispute with the Indians.

highsea

tphuang, you are a PRC apologist.

Denial of the facts doesn't change them. Tibet formally declared their independence in 1912 after expelling the last of the Chinese troops that were occupying the country. Tibet conducted their own foreign affairs, signed treaties, was recognized by their neighbors and other countries as a sovereign nation. If Tibet was part of China, then there was no need for the 17 point agreement which was forced upon the Tibetan delegation to sign in China in 1951. It classic form, China then announced to the world that Tibet was liberated (from whom?).

In October 1991, the US Congress under a Foreign Authorisation Act passed the resolution wherein they recognised "Tibet, including those areas incorporated into the Chinese provinces of Sichuan, Yunnan, Gansu and Qinghai, an occupied country under the established principal of international law".

The agreements that China makes with it's neighbors are believable only to wishful thinkers, since China will break them without hesitation as soon as it's favorable to China to do so. At best, they are temporary, and only negotiated to give China breathing room to focus on higher priorities like Taiwan.

I'm not going to change your mind, and you're not going to change mine. So I will give you the last word.