Why should i buy a fleet of F-22 - Page 2

**Officer of Engineers** · 07-12-2006, 16:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.Smitty

Or if you just want to constrain it to why the UK, Canada, Australia or Japan should buy the Raptor, then it might make more sense.

The only way that's going to happen is if the non-US countries buy a share alotted to the USAF but the USAF pays for the operational costs but the planes and pilots are available for allied operations.

B.Smitty · 07-12-2006, 17:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

The only way that's going to happen is if the non-US countries buy a share alotted to the USAF but the USAF pays for the operational costs but the planes and pilots are available for allied operations.

Haven't there been rumblings that Japan was going to buy some? Would it be that kind of arrangement?

Versus · 07-12-2006, 17:35 PM

Ummmm, well...

The F-22 is a product, right?
A product, usually, have a need for a market where they can be sold, right?
Military products are by default, products, just as cars, candies or clothing and vegetables…So since they are products, they need consumers and they need advertisement, too. You know, “The one and only, F-22 Raptor, one that can take down your neighbor air force completely on its own. One Raptor can shoot down 200 enemy aircrafts. It is fast, invisible, deadly… By Raptor and be safe… Stealth, well of course every household should have it!”…And there is disclaimer:” Only if you are over 18”.
First, the F-22, at first, will go to the nations that are not a threat to the US. Yes, to the UK, Australia, and Canada. With the price that is around 200 million per unit it and with the spare parts, weapons and such things it will reach around 300 million. It will go to Saudi Arabia and Emirates, also.
However, money hungry military industrial complex will become greedier. It will force US govt. to be friendlier with other countries. In addition, than,IT will happen again. Again you will need F-55 and than F-1000 and so on and so on. It’s a never ending circle of life and death.
Damn! I should become a illegal arms dealer, it would make my life much easier.

**Officer of Engineers** · 07-12-2006, 17:38 PM

I really can't see Japan. The ABCA countries have all participated in joint combat operations. Japan has not.

Versus · 07-12-2006, 18:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnut

It's the most advanced fighter in the history of aviation. It will guarantee you the control of the skies, any where, any time, against anyone.

And what will happen if new civil war breaks out in the US?
I do not want it to happen but you know, just considering possibilities. It happened once.

HistoricalDavid · 07-12-2006, 18:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Versus

And what will happen if new civil war breaks out in the US?

You take that risk every time you buy foreign goods. In fact, if there's a risk with your own aircraft. What if the country splits up? Oops, you have the engine factory on one side, the avionics on the other...

Quote:

I do not want it to happen but you know, just considering possibilities. It happened once.

Russian, Chinese and 'EU' aircraft are even more vulnerable - they had civil wars in 1918-21, practically from 1911-49, and 1939-45, respectively. 'Russia' also suffered warlike convulsions in 1991...

gunnut · 07-12-2006, 18:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Versus

And what will happen if new civil war breaks out in the US?
I do not want it to happen but you know, just considering possibilities. It happened once.

A civil war has to have geographically defined regions first, like slavery in the south and abolitionists in the north. Right now, the division is more ideological, with people intermingled across the country. You could argue that the left coast is full of socialist liberal hippy tree hugger leftist loonies, but that's not enough to make them want to suceed from the union. Even if they want to, they can't. Why? They love federal dollars. They need bureaucracy to live. No one wants to leave the Union. Hence, little danger of civil war.

Versus · 07-12-2006, 18:56 PM

I've asked a stupid question, sorry

gunnut · 07-12-2006, 19:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Versus

I've asked a stupid question, sorry

Not at all. Many people have talked about another civil war in the US, but none of the scenarios can come close. Mostly due to, what I think, the dependence on federal dollars of the parties involved. It's very hard for people to refuse handouts by the federal government. We ask Puerto Rico every year or every other year what they want to do. Do they want to become an independent state? Or join the Union? Or status quo? The answer always comes back: status quo.

Come on, who else in this world actually asks a territory if it wants to seperate?

canoe · 07-12-2006, 20:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnut

Not at all. Many people have talked about another civil war in the US, but none of the scenarios can come close. Mostly due to, what I think, the dependence on federal dollars of the parties involved. It's very hard for people to refuse handouts by the federal government. We ask Puerto Rico every year or every other year what they want to do. Do they want to become an independent state? Or join the Union? Or status quo? The answer always comes back: status quo.

Come on, who else in this world actually asks a territory if it wants to seperate?

Right now Canada is more likely to have a civil war then the U.S. Bloody Quebec.

-{SpoonmaN}- · 07-13-2006, 00:04 AM

Why to buy the Raptor: Speed power stealth maneuverability avionics multi-role range etc.

The two reasons not to buy the Raptor:

1. Because your country cannot afford it (which is almost everyone, maybe even the USA)

2. Because your country does not have an atmosphere.

leib10 · 07-13-2006, 00:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HistoricalDavid

And the United States - or the West in general - might continue fighting small wars against technologically ordinary enemies.

Or the geopolitical situation might change.

Few in Britain predicted war against Argentina in 1978, when we were friendly enough to sell them destroyers. Few in the '20s era of prosperity predicted World War within a decade and a half. On a more positive note, few in the early '80s predicted the Soviet Union would collapse less than a decade later, or perhaps in the '60s that Mao would give way to the reforming Deng.

"Hope for the best, prepare for the worst," is probably a good maxim to take and unlikely as it is, war with China is probably a prudent thing for which to prepare.

Yes, I said it - the forty-second billionth 'lolol le China!!!' alarmist comment in the internet's history.

I agree that the purchase of some F-22's is warranted, but equipping all of our fighter wings with them is not necessary unless the shiit really hits the fan.

HistoricalDavid · 07-13-2006, 00:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leibstandarte10

I agree that the purchase of some F-22's is warranted, but equipping all of our fighter wings with them is not necessary unless the shiit really hits the fan.

183 is low enough.

I agree that production can be ramped up in an emergency, but not as much as it was in, say, WWII. The F-22A rolls off the line at about 1 a month, IIRC, and I imagine the start-to-finish time for each plane is higher as well.

leib10 · 07-13-2006, 00:37 AM

New assembly lines can be opened and manpower can be diverted if the situation is dire enough. If need be, that figure can almost certainly be improved.

HistoricalDavid · 07-13-2006, 01:10 AM

Not so much for modern aircraft and especially not for the F-22, which is of course extremely advanced and requires the appropriate training for manufacturers.

Couple that with the initial speed of a modern war...

07-12-2006, 17:35 PM	#18 (permalink)
Versus Patron Join Date: 07-03-06 Posts: 261 Country:	Ummmm, well... The F-22 is a product, right? A product, usually, have a need for a market where they can be sold, right? Military products are by default, products, just as cars, candies or clothing and vegetables…So since they are products, they need consumers and they need advertisement, too. You know, “The one and only, F-22 Raptor, one that can take down your neighbor air force completely on its own. One Raptor can shoot down 200 enemy aircrafts. It is fast, invisible, deadly… By Raptor and be safe… Stealth, well of course every household should have it!”…And there is disclaimer:” Only if you are over 18”. First, the F-22, at first, will go to the nations that are not a threat to the US. Yes, to the UK, Australia, and Canada. With the price that is around 200 million per unit it and with the spare parts, weapons and such things it will reach around 300 million. It will go to Saudi Arabia and Emirates, also. However, money hungry military industrial complex will become greedier. It will force US govt. to be friendlier with other countries. In addition, than,IT will happen again. Again you will need F-55 and than F-1000 and so on and so on. It’s a never ending circle of life and death. Damn! I should become a illegal arms dealer, it would make my life much easier. Last edited by Versus : 07-12-2006 at 17:39 PM.

07-13-2006, 00:04 AM	#26 (permalink)
-{SpoonmaN}- Death, the Destroyer of Worlds... *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 09-08-04 Location: The badlands of West London. Posts: 1,455 Country:	Why to buy the Raptor: Speed power stealth maneuverability avionics multi-role range etc. The two reasons not to buy the Raptor: 1. Because your country cannot afford it (which is almost everyone, maybe even the USA) 2. Because your country does not have an atmosphere. __________________ "I have this to say to the people of Australia: Kick me, I'm different."

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07-12-2006, 17:38 PM	#19 (permalink)
Officer of Engineers *Military Professional* Moderator Scotch taster Join Date: 08-06-03 Posts: 17,069 Country:	I really can't see Japan. The ABCA countries have all participated in joint combat operations. Japan has not.

07-12-2006, 18:56 PM	#23 (permalink)
Versus Patron Join Date: 07-03-06 Posts: 261 Country:	I've asked a stupid question, sorry

07-13-2006, 00:37 AM	#29 (permalink)
leib10 HKHolic *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 02-17-05 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 3,256 Country:	New assembly lines can be opened and manpower can be diverted if the situation is dire enough. If need be, that figure can almost certainly be improved.

07-13-2006, 01:10 AM	#30 (permalink)
HistoricalDavid Distant Deeps or Skies *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 07-19-05 Location: North London, UK Posts: 2,122 Country:	Not so much for modern aircraft and especially not for the F-22, which is of course extremely advanced and requires the appropriate training for manufacturers. Couple that with the initial speed of a modern war...

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