canoe

Can anyone confirm this missile is to due be deployed to U.S forces next year?

The_Burning_Kid

I don't think next year (I think that's the AIM-120C-7). But it is said to be coming within the next couple of years, but I wouldn't know so lets wait for someone that probably knows stuff like this.

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TopHatter

Why, are you in the market?

hello

No, most likely it isn't next year. Currently, the testing for Noise and Vibration for the AIM-120D is being tested aboard the F-22A Raptor, because that will be the AMRAAM Ds first platform. Flight tests with F-22s carrying 120Ds in their weapons bays are being conducted as of now, so it will be about 3 or more years until the D comes into service.

canoe

Sure, you guys include the F22 with the sale?

TopHatter

Well hey, I'm sure we can work out some really creative financing. You won't even notice the interest rate.

How's your credit rating?

Anon

If we really needed them we could probably get our hands on a few dozen for a shooting war.

We did that with AMRAAM for Desert Storm, but by the time we got them into theater the war was just ending, so it was not fired in anger, but i think some Eagles did fly CAP with them before the war was officially over.

We did that with LANTIRN too, but that did see service. Same with GPS.

urmomma158

It's a great missile since it has a 150km range. Can't wait till it comes out.

PubFather

Still baffles me how we have got this 150km figure for the "D", a missile that doesnt exist in service. The whole figure is based on the claim in several sources that it will offer a range 50% greater than the C or the C-7 (its ambiguous which it is). Given that the range of the C-7 is classified in any case, why are we assuming it has that sort of range?

In my view ( for what its worth lol) 100-110 km is much more likely, unless the D has some completely revolutionary form of propellant. Possibly it could achieve 150 km, but only (as Snipe suggests) it the most favourable (and therefore unlikely) firing conditions possible. Max range of any non-ramjet missile is always much less than the true operational, effective range, against real-world targets imho

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Anon

Ramjets too.

The MAXIMUM RANGE listed is normally the maximum ballistic trajectory of the AAM(or AGM) in question in an arbitrary manufacturer or customer selected criteria based wholly on a 'optimal'(another word for impossible) engagement scenario.

For instance, the typical range quoted for the AIM-54C is 100+ nautical miles(claimed to be between 110 and 140nm in reality by various gossips).

That would most likely entail a F-14D flying at it's maximum operational altitude, firing it's Phoenix at maximum separation speed, at a non-manuevering high-supersonic bandit flying a reciprocal intercept course at a much lower altitude, say around 3000 feet or so.

In such an 'engagement' it's no stretch to visualize an AIM-120D fired from a Mach 1.8 Supercrusing raptor at 65k feet having a theoretical maximum ballistic range of 100 miles.

For a typical engagement the practical engagement range of most missiles is usually not much more than 60% of what's listed, and perhaps as low as 30% in a tail chase.

The 'range' of a SAM or AAM is one of the single most misleading statistics around, and in most cases is almost meaningless.

It looks like what they did with the "Slammer D" was to basically add about 25-30% more fuel section, and they probably have a hotter rocket in it too(which may actually hurt economy- ie, burn time though increasing net thrust). That should equate to about 25% more range, give or take. I would venture to guess that the AIM-120D is probably also a good bit faster than a typical AMRAAM.

In the real world, with a mach .9 release, the AIM-120D should be quite dangerous at 50+ nautical miles(basically double the typical max range of the AIM-120A), give or take.
At a mach 1.8 supercruise release from the altitudes an F-22 is going to routinely operate at, you can probably add about another 20-25% to that figure, so probably about 60-65 or so nautical miles.

NOTHING AROUND can see a F-22 from 60-65 nautical miles away, so in reality, the AIM-120D might as well be a death ray.

Zaphael

Actually, its the rumored 2-way datalink that interests me rather than the range.

An aircraft as stealthy as the F-22, may not really need the range as much as the 2-way datalink.

highsea

Good post, snipe. Spot on on every point.

People should be more concerned about NEZ than any theoretical max range, which is a completely useless number unless launch parameters are included for comparison.

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Anon

I'm just parroting what real experts have told me, but thanx bro.

It all makes sense when you think about it.

Anything that makes the missile go UP instead of DOWN or TURN instead of FLY STRAIGHT is going to cut from the maximum theoretical range. Even engagement mode can dramatically affect range. Ie, a beam rider will have MUCH shorter range than the SAME EXACT MISSILE flying a high altitude 'loft' trajectory(a profile option utilized by Phoenix, AMRAAM, and all models of SM-2).

It's all about the kinematics.

LOL...

Captain Drunk

Wow only 150 km, bringing an F-18 withing firing range of a Mig-33 with its mighty new reprogrammable signal processing radar and EOSS sighting system. Btw, here is one of your own posts disparaging the AIM-120

The AIM-120D isn’t the best thing going considering its configured for close encounters unlike an AIM-54 or Foxhound’s AA-9. Still an AIM-120D married to an F-18 is one thing, one with an F-22 is another story.

canoe

This whole argument is mute, can anyone provide me a link of any Mig in history ever engaging a target with missiles at over 100km's?

At that kind of distance the Mig won't be able to see most current gen aircraft and even if the aircraft is detectable the migs radar won't be able to ID a fighter at that distance.

And congradulations on that 'mighty' reprogrammable signal radar. Nice to see the Migs have moved passed the static memory, preprogrammed electronic hardware stage. Being able to update onboard systems with just software makes life alot easier.