Aim-120d - Page 2

Anon · 05-23-2006, 15:58 PM

Apparently he couldn't be bothered to read my explanation of missile range...cause it applies to Russian missiles too.

LOLOL.

The_Burning_Kid · 05-23-2006, 17:15 PM

I'm pretty sure CD thinks that anything Russian is exempt from the laws of physics.... and sanity.

Zaphael · 05-24-2006, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Burning_Kid

I'm pretty sure CD thinks that anything Russian is exempt from the laws of physics.... and sanity.

Hmm but u have to admit, their AMRAAMSki does have a very unique and effective low drag design! =)

highsea · 05-24-2006, 13:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaphael

Hmm but u have to admit, their AMRAAMSki does have a very unique and effective low drag design! =)

That's debatable. Lift=Drag, no matter how you configure the control surfaces.

What it does have is very short throw actuators, which saves space and weight in the airframe.

BenRoethig · 05-27-2006, 13:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PubFather

In my view ( for what its worth lol) 100-110 km is much more likely, unless the D has some completely revolutionary form of propellant.

Which rumor has it does. You'd be surprised what comes about when the Navy, Boeing, and MBDA starting talking about U.S. Meteor production.

Anon · 05-27-2006, 13:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenRoethig

Which rumor has it does. You'd be surprised what comes about when the Navy, Boeing, and MBDA starting talking about U.S. Meteor production.

We'll see.

kams · 08-04-2006, 21:19 PM

In Aviation Week and Space technology (June 12, 2006) there is a mention of Raytheon's newest variant of Amraam called Ncade (Network Centric Air-borne Defense Element --wow thats a mouthfull). Ncade uses an Amraam first stage, a new second stage developed by Aerojet and a modified AIM-9X seeker. This missile is designed to engage missiles in their boost phase and it may also be used in cruise missile defense.

urmomma158 · 08-05-2006, 16:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Drunk

Wow only 150 km, bringing an F-18 withing firing range of a Mig-33 with its mighty new reprogrammable signal processing radar and EOSS sighting system. Btw, here is one of your own posts disparaging the AIM-120

The AIM-120D isn’t the best thing going considering its configured for close encounters unlike an AIM-54 or Foxhound’s AA-9. Still an AIM-120D married to an F-18 is one thing, one with an F-22 is another story.

yes i said that however what matters is the range of the active seeker.
You'll never get a shot at such a range.Lol the AIM 54 phoenxi missile can be dodged even and once the enemy gets into amraam range(active seeker ) you're taost. Funny how you never seem to learn anything from any thread.

Garry · 08-06-2006, 10:30 AM

Thank you Snipe. Good post. Can you give me a link where I can read a bit more from your friends experts? May be some forum thread?

nutter · 08-11-2006, 22:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garry

Thank you Snipe. Good post. Can you give me a link where I can read a bit more from your friends experts? May be some forum thread?

Now, i know some here may poke fun at this, but there's a lot of cluey people (ex and current combat pilots included) who play falcon 4, in which real-world tactics actually work.

The best easy to read description i've seen so far of BVR missile combat is this:

http://www.frugalsworld.com/modules/...?articleid=203

It does go into a bit of tactics as well.... the basic idea being to get high and fast (max burner) to maximise your missile's energy at launch, then "crank" once you have a missile in the air (turn so that the bandit is at your radar's gimbal limit) and brake so that you reduce closure as much as possible whilst still maintaining corner speed and radar lock, at least until your missile goes autonomous...

The fact that an F22 will perhaps be supercruising at mach 1.6 instead of mach 0.9 like a typical 4th/4.5 gen fighter is what will *really* help the AMRAAM's max (and also effective) range - in the acceleration/climbing phase, it will give the AMRAAM far more initial energy....

Anon · 08-11-2006, 22:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garry

Thank you Snipe. Good post. Can you give me a link where I can read a bit more from your friends experts? May be some forum thread?

There used to be a test pilot who posted on my site but he hasn't been around in several months. The rest of the pilots on my site are all A-10 drivers(and a nighthawk driver), so i doubt they'd have a lot to offer wrt ACM, but you may feel free to ask. There are a few tactics geeks on my forum. Try general aviation and/or the hog chat sections.

www.a-10.org

obrescia · 07-27-2007, 15:48 PM

Wouldn’t the Sukhoi [Su-30, 33, 35 series] IRST 'see' a Raptor or F-22 missile launch regardless? These systems can even see [supercruse] air frame heating of your launch platform as well as missile nose cone. What is the range of the Sukhoi IRST?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Account

Ramjets too.

The MAXIMUM RANGE listed is normally the maximum ballistic trajectory of the AAM(or AGM) in question in an arbitrary manufacturer or customer selected criteria based wholly on a 'optimal'(another word for impossible) engagement scenario.

For instance, the typical range quoted for the AIM-54C is 100+ nautical miles(claimed to be between 110 and 140nm in reality by various gossips).

That would most likely entail a F-14D flying at it's maximum operational altitude, firing it's Phoenix at maximum separation speed, at a non-manuevering high-supersonic bandit flying a reciprocal intercept course at a much lower altitude, say around 3000 feet or so.

In such an 'engagement' it's no stretch to visualize an AIM-120D fired from a Mach 1.8 Supercrusing raptor at 65k feet having a theoretical maximum ballistic range of 100 miles.

For a typical engagement the practical engagement range of most missiles is usually not much more than 60% of what's listed, and perhaps as low as 30% in a tail chase.

The 'range' of a SAM or AAM is one of the single most misleading statistics around, and in most cases is almost meaningless.

It looks like what they did with the "Slammer D" was to basically add about 25-30% more fuel section, and they probably have a hotter rocket in it too(which may actually hurt economy- ie, burn time though increasing net thrust). That should equate to about 25% more range, give or take. I would venture to guess that the AIM-120D is probably also a good bit faster than a typical AMRAAM.

In the real world, with a mach .9 release, the AIM-120D should be quite dangerous at 50+ nautical miles(basically double the typical max range of the AIM-120A), give or take.
At a mach 1.8 supercruise release from the altitudes an F-22 is going to routinely operate at, you can probably add about another 20-25% to that figure, so probably about 60-65 or so nautical miles.

NOTHING AROUND can see a F-22 from 60-65 nautical miles away, so in reality, the AIM-120D might as well be a death ray.

obrescia · 07-27-2007, 15:53 PM

Isn't the F-22 is well within the Sukhoi [Su-30, 33, 35 series] IRST envelope before F-22 can "Fox-3”?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Burning_Kid

I'm pretty sure CD thinks that anything Russian is exempt from the laws of physics.... and sanity.

obrescia · 07-27-2007, 16:11 PM

Possible issues i see with F22

a) Low number ~ 150-180 units.
b) Stealth works only in Radio Frequencies [RADAR] Sukhoi series have IRST systems, [detect range anyone?]
c) No AIM-54 ‘like’ long range missile availability [soon?].
d) WVR no flight performance advantage against Sukhoi Su-30, 33, 35 series.
e) In hi threat environments, F-22 hi reliance on support aircraft [AWACS] which are in themselves vulnerable to Iranian F-14, Mig-31 and Sukhoi.

glyn · 07-27-2007, 16:31 PM

Three posts in quick succession. Don't you think you should fill in your public profile, and then make your next post in Introductions so the WAB membership can see who you are?

05-23-2006, 17:15 PM	#17 (permalink)
The_Burning_Kid Contributor Join Date: 10-07-05 Posts: 444	I'm pretty sure CD thinks that anything Russian is exempt from the laws of physics.... and sanity. __________________ This message has brought to you by: F-22 Kicks-A$$.com *If you clicked that you fell for it :tongue:

08-04-2006, 21:19 PM	#22 (permalink)
kams *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 07-22-06 Location: Piscatawy, NJ Posts: 1,431 Country:	Ncade In Aviation Week and Space technology (June 12, 2006) there is a mention of Raytheon's newest variant of Amraam called Ncade (Network Centric Air-borne Defense Element --wow thats a mouthfull). Ncade uses an Amraam first stage, a new second stage developed by Aerojet and a modified AIM-9X seeker. This missile is designed to engage missiles in their boost phase and it may also be used in cruise missile defense.

07-27-2007, 16:11 PM	#29 (permalink)
obrescia Banished Regular Join Date: 07-27-07 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 95 Country:	F-22 [not totally sold], F-35 [even worse] Possible issues i see with F22 a) Low number ~ 150-180 units. b) Stealth works only in Radio Frequencies [RADAR] Sukhoi series have IRST systems, [detect range anyone?] c) No AIM-54 ‘like’ long range missile availability [soon?]. d) WVR no flight performance advantage against Sukhoi Su-30, 33, 35 series. e) In hi threat environments, F-22 hi reliance on support aircraft [AWACS] which are in themselves vulnerable to Iranian F-14, Mig-31 and Sukhoi.

07-27-2007, 16:31 PM	#30 (permalink)
glyn *Military Professional* Join Date: 09-15-06 Location: Penzance, Cornwall UK Posts: 6,545	Three posts in quick succession. Don't you think you should fill in your public profile, and then make your next post in Introductions so the WAB membership can see who you are? __________________ Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.

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05-23-2006, 15:58 PM	#16 (permalink)
Anon New Member Join Date: 08-03-03 Posts: 0	Apparently he couldn't be bothered to read my explanation of missile range...cause it applies to Russian missiles too. LOLOL.

08-06-2006, 10:30 AM	#24 (permalink)
Garry *Defense Professional* Join Date: 06-18-04 Posts: 1,528	Thank you Snipe. Good post. Can you give me a link where I can read a bit more from your friends experts? May be some forum thread?

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