JF-17 thunders through. Engine issue resolved! - Page 2

Amaterasu · 05-17-2006, 13:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by American_Raider

FC-1/JF-17 is a light weight AC with max takeoff weight of 9,000kg. AL-31 is for medium & larger ACs & it's too heavy & too large for FC-1/JF-17. In order to put AL-31 or WS-10 into Fc-1, a larger airframe is required & might just will start all over.

Turbofan Engine is a major problem of China's Aviation industry, China has yet develope a capable turbofan for its airforce, only 3 nations in the world have ability to produce turbofan engines, USA, Russia & da French, China is close with her WS-10 turbofan but not quit in that club yet.

BTW, LCA of India is using GE engine.

It was a joke American_Raider but point taken...

ajaybhutani · 05-17-2006, 15:12 PM

quite strange .. but even the licence production is also restricted to a lot of restrictions.. for instance .. india cannot export a MKI produced in india.. can we get more details for licence production( because i dont understand the logic behind restricting your own engines but allowing licenced engines , it would be more profitable to instead use his own engines for export to paksitan..).. unless of course china is gonna use it more as a illegal copy.
does someone have the details of the licence production..aggrement ??

Neo · 05-17-2006, 15:14 PM

Can China do that without facing sanctions from Mowcow?
I mean exporting illegal copy of RD-93??

Asim Aquil · 05-17-2006, 15:17 PM

My guess is Russia always wanted to sell. This just buys them an excuse to tell to the Indians that "we tried...".

Russia could've stopped the JF-17 on so many occassions. For example it could've just placed the same restrictions on the Mig-33D being modified and given to the Pakistanis. The plane is primarily for Pakistan yet Russia allows China to do all that it is doing and Pak is now also going to start receiving the planes. March 2007 isn't far away.

Neo · 05-17-2006, 15:19 PM

Russia will open up its doors to Pakistan as soon as we start spending big $$$ on defence purchase in near future.
Money can buy anything...well almost

ajaybhutani · 05-18-2006, 00:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo

Can China do that without facing sanctions from Mowcow?

I mean exporting illegal copy of RD-93??

They have been doing that for decades.. F7 is a good example for it.
But this time it will hurt the russians more as now JF17 will compete with Mig29 in every market.. I do think this can force russia to restrict chineese access to its high end tech

Samudra · 05-18-2006, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo

Can China do that without facing sanctions from Mowcow?
I mean exporting illegal copy of RD-93??

Neo,

I can see only this about the RD-93 in the whole damn article....

Quote:

China has worked around that prohibition by producing the Klimov RD-93 turbofan, (an upgraded version of RD-33) under license.

I'll wait till we hear it from the Russians.

lemontree · 05-18-2006, 02:30 AM

Sam,
As usual the title of the thread and matter in the article are at tangents. The JF-17 prototype may have used the RD-93, but not the WS-10 that is still under development. Hence the title of the thread is another lie (similar to other threads) and there is no O.K from the Russians for the RD-93.

Untill the WS-10 comes out in time and is successful the power source of the JF-17 will remain a big question mark.

Besides the recent interest shown by the PAF in the J-10 suggests that the Chinese may want to promote the J-10 to the PAF and delay the JF-17. Makes more dollar sense for the Chinese.

bull · 05-18-2006, 03:03 AM

Asim,where in the article does it state that JF 17 is going to be powered by RD 93 or Ws 10

Vaman · 05-18-2006, 04:01 AM

I'll believe it when I see a RD-93 equipped JF-17. FC-1s are a different issue.

Asim Aquil · 05-18-2006, 04:08 AM

Read the entire thing:

Quote:

According to Defence News correspondent, Wendell Minnick, reporting from Taipei, "The JF-17 project came under threat last year when Russia forbade China to put its RD-93 engine into aircraft that might compete against Russian aircraft in the export market. Moscow's engine ban also may have been an attempt to preserve its ties with New Delhi, which buys more arms from Russia than from any other country, and which is looking to buy 126 fighter aircraft for $10 billion." China has worked around that prohibition by producing the Klimov RD-93 turbofan, (an upgraded version of RD-33) under license.

March 2007 is not that far away. Everything'll be silenced once Pak pilots fly the JF-17.

Samudra · 05-18-2006, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Everything'll be silenced once Pak pilots fly the JF-17.

How does a PAF pilot flying the JF-17 silence the criticism about the lack of a decent engine for the aircraft?

badguy2000 · 05-19-2006, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajaybhutani

They have been doing that for decades.. F7 is a good example for it.
But this time it will hurt the russians more as now JF17 will compete with Mig29 in every market.. I do think this can force russia to restrict chineese access to its high end tech

russian rd93 is just temporary engine for JF17.

chinese is developing a engine called WS13 ,"TAISHANG MOUNTAIN",based on the core engine of abandoned turbofan engine "TIANSHANG MOUNTAIN 21" + the shell of russian RD93.because the core engine and the shell are both ready to wear,WS13 "TAISHANG MOUNTAIN" is expected to be put to production in 2008 or so.

BTW,the abandoned turbofan project of "TIANSHANG 21" was developed for the 4 th generation aircraft similiar with F22,but it was abandoned after the core engine was ready.so the core engine of WS13 "TAIWAN MOUNTAIN" is reported to be more potential than russian RD93

Vaman · 05-19-2006, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badguy2000

russian rd93 is just temporary engine for JF17.

To be more precise rd93 engines are for the FC-1, not the JF17.

indianguy4u · 05-19-2006, 12:39 PM

RD-93 is still Kilmov development ie russian. So what so gung ho about it. As RD-33 wanst available to pak, same is the case for RD-93. Also its WS-13 & not WS-10 which is being developed for fc-1. J-10 will use WS-10 whenever its going to be ready.

05-17-2006, 15:14 PM	#18 (permalink)
Neo Silent lurker *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 04-06-05 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 7,920 Country:	Can China do that without facing sanctions from Mowcow? I mean exporting illegal copy of RD-93?? __________________ Administrator @ Defence.pk

05-18-2006, 02:30 AM	#23 (permalink)
lemontree Bandaid *Military Professional* Join Date: 10-04-04 Location: India Posts: 5,928	Sam, As usual the title of the thread and matter in the article are at tangents. The JF-17 prototype may have used the RD-93, but not the WS-10 that is still under development. Hence the title of the thread is another lie (similar to other threads) and there is no O.K from the Russians for the RD-93. Untill the WS-10 comes out in time and is successful the power source of the JF-17 will remain a big question mark. Besides the recent interest shown by the PAF in the J-10 suggests that the Chinese may want to promote the J-10 to the PAF and delay the JF-17. Makes more dollar sense for the Chinese. __________________ Cheers!...on the rocks!!

05-18-2006, 03:03 AM	#24 (permalink)
bull *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 01-17-05 Posts: 2,982	Asim,where in the article does it state that JF 17 is going to be powered by RD 93 or Ws 10 __________________ What's the difference between people who pray in church and those who pray in casinos? The ones in the casinos are serious.

05-19-2006, 12:39 PM	#30 (permalink)
indianguy4u Real Madrid CF *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 03-07-05 Location: Mumbai Posts: 3,213 Country:	RD-93 is still Kilmov development ie russian. So what so gung ho about it. As RD-33 wanst available to pak, same is the case for RD-93. Also its WS-13 & not WS-10 which is being developed for fc-1. J-10 will use WS-10 whenever its going to be ready. __________________ Hala Madrid!!

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05-17-2006, 15:12 PM	#17 (permalink)
ajaybhutani *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 09-05-04 Posts: 2,100	quite strange .. but even the licence production is also restricted to a lot of restrictions.. for instance .. india cannot export a MKI produced in india.. can we get more details for licence production( because i dont understand the logic behind restricting your own engines but allowing licenced engines , it would be more profitable to instead use his own engines for export to paksitan..).. unless of course china is gonna use it more as a illegal copy. does someone have the details of the licence production..aggrement ??

05-17-2006, 15:17 PM	#19 (permalink)
Asim Aquil Banished *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 06-11-04 Location: Dubai Posts: 8,135 Country:	My guess is Russia always wanted to sell. This just buys them an excuse to tell to the Indians that "we tried...". Russia could've stopped the JF-17 on so many occassions. For example it could've just placed the same restrictions on the Mig-33D being modified and given to the Pakistanis. The plane is primarily for Pakistan yet Russia allows China to do all that it is doing and Pak is now also going to start receiving the planes. March 2007 isn't far away.

05-17-2006, 15:19 PM	#20 (permalink)
Neo Silent lurker *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 04-06-05 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 7,920 Country:	Russia will open up its doors to Pakistan as soon as we start spending big $$$ on defence purchase in near future. Money can buy anything...well almost

05-18-2006, 04:01 AM	#25 (permalink)
Vaman Banished Join Date: 11-06-03 Posts: 1,043	I'll believe it when I see a RD-93 equipped JF-17. FC-1s are a different issue.

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