CSAF: Raptor, Eurofighter complementary - Page 2

JG73 · 05-23-2006, 16:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PubFather

There is a massive supercruise/non-supercruise debate about the Typhoon with lots of arguments on both sides.

Supercruise is nothing at all new as stated in Simullcrum's post. The idea of operational supercruise is different. Without a doubt, Typhoon is capable of supercruise in a clean config. The problem is raised when we look at manufacturers stats versus erm, opinions.

With a 6 missile aam load out - its capable of supercruise without reheat at mach 1.2 @ 36000 ft according to EADS and Eurojet.

It wouldnt be able to supercruise carrying - for eg - Stormshadow.

The only independent evidence is from Singapore. Rafale definitely failed to demonstrate supercruise in Singapore. I've seen two versions for Typhoon - one that it had to fly without test equipment, another that it successfully demonstrated supercruise in a full test config.

As far as I am aware, the only fighter that passed all the Singapore tests fully(but was dropped because of concerns over delivery/weapons integration and a botched sales pitch) was the Typhoon.

Draw your own conclusions... I have...

Thats my point of knowledge too. Further more I had the opportunity to chat with Chris Worning at ILA on sunday and he confirmed that the Eurofighter is able to supercruise at mach 1.2 in a configuration with 4 MRAAMs and up to 4 SRAAMs.

Doug97 · 05-23-2006, 17:03 PM

Plus Eurojet is already working on increasing the thrust and reducing the weight of their EJ200 engine.

hello · 05-24-2006, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

With what, a 500lb pound payload?

With no payload.

Quote:

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

The F-35A and C both have the specific excess thrust and a wing sweep angle that should be favorable wrt supercruising.

I would be very surprised if the A and C cannot maintain supersonic cruise at optimal altitude without afterburner.

They(Lockmart) haven't claimed that F-35 can supercruise, not with only 1 engine. Although, since real F-35s haven't flown yet, it isn't yet known whether it can supercruise or not. The C may be able to, though, with it's large wings and extra lift.

avon1944 · 05-26-2006, 23:03 PM

Gen. Jumper is a lucky man to have flown both aircraft. There is British Typhoon pilot who started training to fly the F-22 in 03/06. The RAF has two Typhoons permanently stationed here in the USA for evaluation and developement of tactics. The states of Nevada and New Mexico have large areas where RF testing as well as tactics can take place with little chance of observation.

In an interview on the Discovery Channel a Typhoon test pilot stated that in operations the F-22 would start its mission before the attack package lifts off. Its mission is to go over bad guy land and wait for the defense to respond to the approaching attack package. When interceptors take off, they will be promptly shot down before they can form up. The Typhoon would fly top cover for the F-35 and other aircraft of the attack package.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anand1266

USA can go for both f-22 and eurofighter in her inventry coz USA is also member of NATO

What would the USA need the Typhoon for? At $110M apiece the Typhoon is between the F-22 and F-35 in performance and price. The US air forces desire for stealth means they have little need for the EF-2000.

Adrian

Anon · 05-27-2006, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hello

They(Lockmart) haven't claimed that F-35 can supercruise, not with only 1 engine. Although, since real F-35s haven't flown yet, it isn't yet known whether it can supercruise or not. The C may be able to, though, with it's large wings and extra lift.

Gotta remember the F-35 is a very clean plane in an internal stores only mode.

Here's an indepth and highly detailed F-35 analysis from an RAAF perspective that i found to be informative. It's 4 years old, but it does really look at a lot of the core technologies and inherent aerodynamic properties of the JSF:
http://www.sci.fi/~fta/aviat-6b.htm

"The Joint Strike Fighter is a most curious blend of the F-22 technology base, state-of-the-art avionics and Cold War era strategic thinking - in its own way as much a Cold War anachronism as the Eurocanards. Insofar as one of its prime design aims is to shoot down the Eurocanards in the commercial dogfight, it represents an instance of an anachronistic fighter sizing strategy and associated cost structure becoming a principal design driver over achievable combat effect and long term strategic usefulness."

Hmmm, i'd say that's about right.

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05-23-2006, 17:03 PM	#17 (permalink)
Doug97 Regular Join Date: 04-23-06 Posts: 51	Plus Eurojet is already working on increasing the thrust and reducing the weight of their EJ200 engine.

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