Does the U.S need a cheap fighter?

**Garry** · 30 Apr 06,, 10:10

Originally Posted by Jimmy

I can think of 3 off the top of my head...USSR took out a Korean jet, Russia shot down their own a couple of years ago, and the USN shot down an Iranian liner. I'm sure there are more than that.

My point is that getting a visual ID would've eliminated at least 2 of these (the Russian vs Russian may still have happened).

Russia did not shot down any other liner since KAL-007. This was Ukrainians and that was SAM

Ukraine shot down Russian aircraft with Israelly passengers..... Ukrainian air defense where having meneuvres and one S-200 missile was shot to wrong sector. Ukrainian army is actually quite dangerous. Last time they had an air sho their pilot crashed into the public.... the infantry manuevres ended up with a tactical missiles (without warheard) hitting an apparment block.

So when Ukrainian unti-chemical unit went to Iraq in 2003, I was afraid that something chemical might as well explode there

**Bill** · 01 May 06,, 01:13

Originally Posted by Garry

probably LPI radars were applied ?

Is the APG-63(V)3 AESA radar set an LPI?

**highsea** · 01 May 06,, 16:57

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

Is the APG-63(V)3 AESA radar set an LPI?

Yes, but there is more than one type of LPI mode.

All AESA sets can operate in a "single scan" type of LPI mode, where the radar makes one scan then goes passive. The computer calculates updates based on stored data, then later another scan for corrections, etc.

**Bill** · 01 May 06,, 17:21

Originally Posted by highsea

Yes, but there is more than one type of LPI mode.

All AESA sets can operate in a "single scan" type of LPI mode, where the radar makes one scan then goes passive. The computer calculates updates based on stored data, then later another scan for corrections, etc.

Awesome......so the F-15SG is a stealth fighter after a fashion.

If you're a silent hunter, you're using a STEALTH tactic. Hell, our F-15Cs operate as silent hunters steering on AWACS intercept vectors to come in behind radiating opponents ALREADY.

Apparently the F-15SG and USAF 63(V)3 equipped Eagle C's will be able to play that game without the aid of the AWACs.

Nice....

**highsea** · 01 May 06,, 18:36

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

...Hell, our F-15Cs operate as silent hunters steering on AWACS intercept vectors to come in behind radiating opponents ALREADY.

Apparently the F-15SG and USAF 63(V)3 equipped Eagle C's will be able to play that game without the aid of the AWACs.

Nice....

They can and do. One of the tactics that the Elmendorf Eagles practice is a picket line of AESA Eagles operating in just that manner. They vector the attacking AC from behind and direct the weapons, while the attackers in front operate in passive-only mode.

**Bill** · 01 May 06,, 19:52

Originally Posted by highsea

They can and do. One of the tactics that the Elmendorf Eagles practice is a picket line of AESA Eagles operating in just that manner. They vector the attacking AC from behind and direct the weapons, while the attackers in front operate in passive-only mode.

But highseas......the F-15C is "Completely unstealthy", how is that possible!?!?!?!?

Stealth is a tactic more than a technology.

-{SpoonmaN}- · 02 May 06,, 06:53

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

But highseas......the F-15C is "Completely unstealthy", how is that possible!?!?!?!?

Stealth is a tactic more than a technology.

And even though the USAF is obviously rather enamoured with it, they clearly don't see it as their great silver bullet, otherwise they wouldn't have bothered going to so much trouble to give the Raptor all that speed and maneuverability. Clearly stealth is not everything.

**dalem** · 02 May 06,, 08:30

Originally Posted by -{SpoonmaN}-

And even though the USAF is obviously rather enamoured with it, they clearly don't see it as their great silver bullet, otherwise they wouldn't have bothered going to so much trouble to give the Raptor all that speed and maneuverability. Clearly stealth is not everything.

That's a piece of half-arsed reasoning. When you want the best you cram all you possibly can into it.

-dale

**B.Smitty** · 02 May 06,, 12:59

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

But highseas......the F-15C is "Completely unstealthy", how is that possible!?!?!?!?

Stealth is a tactic more than a technology.

M21, was this dig directed at me?

Stealth is obviously part tactic and part technology.

F-15s flying silent is a tactic. But that does them no good if there's an enemy AWACs in the vicinity. Their large signature will give them away.

OTOH, a stealthy aircraft may also remain silent as a tactic to prevent enemy RWRs from detecting its emissions. But, unlike the F-15, it is far less likely to be detected by their AWACS.

An elephant standing still may be quiet, but it is still an elephant.

It's far more likely to be seen than a flee.

**Bill** · 03 May 06,, 04:55

Originally Posted by B.Smitty

M21, was this dig directed at me?

You caught that eh?

**hello** · 03 May 06,, 12:24

Your enemy not being able to catch your radar on RWR doesn't mean your stealthy. Although they can't detect your radar, they can still detect you, and that's just as bad. With Flankers having rear-view radars, this won't work against them. Apparently, the 5 F-15Cs which went against one Raptor used this tactic, or tried to. The result...

**jgetti** · 03 May 06,, 17:45

Originally Posted by highsea

They can and do. One of the tactics that the Elmendorf Eagles practice is a picket line of AESA Eagles operating in just that manner. They vector the attacking AC from behind and direct the weapons, while the attackers in front operate in passive-only mode.

Any idea what the differences are between the APG-63 V2 and V3 are?

**ASG** · 03 May 06,, 19:30

Originally Posted by hello

Your enemy not being able to catch your radar on RWR doesn't mean your stealthy.

What that means is the enemy aircraft's RWR is defective. Nothing less, nothing more.

Originally Posted by hello

Although they can't detect your radar, they can still detect you, and that's just as bad.

Really? How?! Other sources of detection except for Radar are: visual detection & IR detection.

Now if your aircraft is 100KM away from point A, the only way enemy is going to be able to detect you is through Radar. IR wont work over such range, and obviously so wont Visual detection. Now, if they cannot detect you through Radar, how is that bad for you?!

Originally Posted by hello

With Flankers having rear-view radars, this won't work against them. Apparently, the 5 F-15Cs which went against one Raptor used this tactic, or tried to. The result...

The result..? Raptor lost? Right?

**highsea** · 03 May 06,, 20:45

Originally Posted by jgetti

Any idea what the differences are between the APG-63 V2 and V3 are?

I'll just make a WAG, since I haven't seen pics of the (v)3. My guess is that the (v)3 uses the tile antenna architecture vs. the brick.

I'll see if I can dig up anything, but you know how it is...

**Shadowsided** · 03 May 06,, 23:24

Originally Posted by Maximus

What that means is the enemy aircraft's RWR is defective. Nothing less, nothing more.

Really? How?! Other sources of detection except for Radar are: visual detection & IR detection.

Now if your aircraft is 100KM away from point A, the only way enemy is going to be able to detect you is through Radar. IR wont work over such range, and obviously so wont Visual detection. Now, if they cannot detect you through Radar, how is that bad for you?!

The result..? Raptor lost? Right?

the Raptor anhihilated the Eagles so easily lol!!!!!!!!