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It dosn't need to dogfight, like the F-14 its got speed, agility and long-range BVRAAMs. A Mirage or Hornet could be termed 'multi-role' but their chances of survivability against a Tomcat or Foxhound are nil.Originally Posted by Jimmy
USN F-14 Tomcat
USAF F-15 Eagle
One of the stupidest posts I have seen from you in a while. Oh well, you'll never learn.Lower altitude work to launch missiles at high altitude Mach 2 Bombers?
Adrian,
At one point you say the F-14 was ‘designed for lower altitude work’, then compare it with the Mig-31, which you state was ‘designed to stay up at high altitude, use its very powerful radar and kill enemy intruders’ which conversely disproves your own point.
Secondly the Mig-31, like the all-weather multi-role Mig-29s and F-14s can dogfight at all altitudes and if the F-15 without thrust-vectoring could outmaneuver the F-5 during test trails back in the 70s, a Mig-31 killing an F-16 would be child’s play. In fact fighters like Mig-31 and F-14 aren’t even gonna go into arm-wrestling dogfights with F-15s or F-16s. They’ll just aim and shoot.
The sniper always wins, not the acrobatic kick-boxer
The point of matter is that the F-14 is designed as an interceptor while the F-15 is designed as an air superiority fighter. While the F-14 has real good capabilities in destroying bombers and carrier-fighters from long-range, it would not serve as an adequate escort like the F-15. The F-15 is capable of fighting off fighters from close range BVR better than the F-14. The F-14 excels in long range BVR. This is like comparing a SUV to a pick up truck. Two very different things. Both can carry things but they have different purposes.
It dosn't need to dogfight, like the F-14 its got speed, agility and long-range BVRAAMs. A Mirage or Hornet could be termed 'multi-role' but their chances of survivability against a Tomcat or Foxhound are nil.
Topgun pilots would surely crackup reading this
Not only can an F-14 fend off fighters of all sizes and speed, it can also intercept cruise missiles with its AIM-54, something an F-15 cannot do and like the speedy old Mig-25 that shot down the 'Super Hornet', F-14 is a match for any fighter while your 'SUV' F-15s just got chewed up by 1950's vintage 'hotrod' Mig-21s of the IAF ha ha ha!
That Mig shot down a regular Hornet, not a Super Hornet.Mig-25 that shot down the 'Super Hornet'
Let me make my point of view more clear. The F-14 and MiG.-31 are simular in that they are both designed to kill from a distance. The thing that sets the MiG.-31 apart from the other interceptors of the world is that it is a "strategic interceptor" designed to kill nuclear armed bombers that have high powered jamming.
One thing that must be remembered is, as the interceptor gains altitude the minimum altitude of which a target can be detected increases also. Detecting a target is one thing, getting a radar lock-on is something else
EXAMPLEs;
During a Red Flag exercise a couple of A-10's were attacking an armored column. An F-15 was at 10,000ft (3,000m), it could detect the A-10's but not lock-on to them. The A-10's stayed down at 25ft to 50ft (8m to 16m) and continued their attacks but, kept a eye on the F-15. Finally the F-15 got to close and after a straffing run one A-10 pulled up into a steep climb. Just a few seconds later the A-10 had a gun track and before the F-15 realized it, the ACMI range equipment gave the A-10 a guns kill on the F-15.
The F-14 at 22,000ft (6,700m) could detect a Ryan Firebee in access of 80mi (127Km) when the Firebee is flying around 20,000ft. When the Firebee is at 50ft above the ocean, the F-14 has to come down to 10,000ft to detect the Firebee at 40mi (64Km).
It dogfights like the F-111 did! The MiG.-31 was designed to cover large areas at high speed and use its powerful radar to avoid jamming and detect incomming bombers. It was not designed to "turn and burn."
If you are comparing the F-5's ability maneuver with the F-16's, there is a lot you need to learn! The F-5 Freedom Fighter was designed to be the equal of the MiG.-21. At speeds below 450kts, the F-16 is "the most" maneuverable American fighter, it also had the highest T/W. There is no contest there. The F-16 was the third aircraft of the fourth generation jets and like the other fourth generation fighters it was designed to out maneuver anything the Soviet AF had.
The MiG.-31 was designed with the MiG.-25 as its starting point.
Maybe in WW3 but, the limited conflicts so far the ROE's have not allowed that.
Adrian
All the more easier for an HVAA interceptor with long range missiles. There's no stopping an F-14 or Mig-31 pilot from flying his plane slower, to take a better shot at the enemy further away with his long range missiles, while the others 'turn and burn'
This whole misconception of the F-14 with the AIM-54 and Mig-31 with the R-33 being interceptors for “strategic bombers” is totally wrong. That means all these years the US Navy stocked its Carrier air-wing with AIM-54s only from fear of Russian bombers?
Basically everyone in this thread has hailed the F-14 as the “interceptor” and there you have it – right from of the horses’ mouth, the F-14 is as much of an air-superiority fighter like the F-15 and multi-role Mirages and F-16s, but what makes it different is it’s intradiction role. The F-15 would only be successful against an F-14 or Mig-31 if it’s close to just 50 km away, but the F-14 with the AIM-54 and Mig-31 with the R-33 isn’t going to give the F-15 that chance and as you said, the Mig-31 may dogfight like the F-111, but F-111 was also highly maneuverable at low level, nothing was faster than F-111 in nap-of-the-earth missions, where it was supported by ground control and the Mig-31 has a similar ground based support system.
Furthermore you are totally wrong in saying F-16 is the US’ most maneuverable fighter, the F-15 and F-18 could both outdo it, for one the F-16 can’t stall, it has a very low AoA. Secondly it was made to supercede the Mig-21 after the F-5s failure in Vietnam, but PAF F-16s were no match for IAF Mig-21s that gave them chase all along the north-south border and kept them 40 km way inside their own territory without budging an inch closer to the Indian border, finally giving up and heading back to base.
Built like Migeez, F-14s and F-111s just rule the roost
Last edited by Captain Drunk; 31 Mar 06, at 11:00.
Yeah the Super-Bug wasn't around until a long time after the 1st Gulf War.
And am I correct in understanding that the Foxhound is a rebuilt aircraft based on the Foxbat?
If so, wouldn't it be for high-speed, high altitude interception (I think USSR had the Valkyrie in mind when they designed the Foxbat), or did they pitch it for different roles when they redesigned it?
That and the SR-71.
"The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man
Is it even possible for any Fighter to intercept a Blackbird?
Maybe if the Blackbird is flying towards the fighter, but I doubt any fighter would catch it in a tail chase.
Only a Mig-31D version - the Anti-satellite interceptor designed to carry a single large ASAT (anti-satellite) missile under fuselage. Also possibly an F-15 variant that was designed for a similar role, but was cancelled.
AFAIK, the same basic airframe, but very different engines and avionics.
A nice comparison -25 vs -31 would come in handy
Among the community of nations, Pakistan today stands out on one hand as a petty thug brandishing a dangerous weapon, and at other times as a concubine, sleeping with anyone willing to pay for her expensive tastes. ~ Tarek Fatah
I just dont understand the mindset of people who constantly grasp for straws to hold onto their misguided perception of reality, when people who deal with this stuff for a living tell them they're wrong.Topgun pilots would surely crackup reading this
Not only can an F-14 fend off fighters of all sizes and speed, it can also intercept cruise missiles with its AIM-54, something an F-15 cannot do and like the speedy old Mig-25 that shot down the 'Super Hornet', F-14 is a match for any fighter while your 'SUV' F-15s just got chewed up by 1950's vintage 'hotrod' Mig-21s of the IAF ha ha ha
The fuselage of the 31 is a different material. A titanium alloy, IIRC. But yes, the 31 is based heavily on the 25.AFAIK, the same basic airframe, but very different engines and avionics.
A nice comparison -25 vs -31 would come in handy
Last edited by Jimmy; 03 Apr 06, at 16:37.
Or better still, an F-14D against a Mig-31A nice comparison -25 vs -31 would come in handy
The US could only principally depend on the F-14 and F-15 in dealing with the MIG-31. A loaded MIG-31 can outfly both the F-15 and F-14 due to its large internal tanks (means there is no need for drag punishing external tanks most of the time) and low bypass engine or turbojet that are optimised for high speed flying. Now, if MIG can only fly fast for a short period of time before it runs out of fuel, the same can be said for the F-14/15, as well as and MIG-31 has much internal fuel to empty mass ratio than F-14, but the F-14 has one advantage, the AIM-54. While the F-15 will have to turn back and run since it would have to risk getting much closer to the Mig than the F-14 would and on doing that, is in danger of getting hit by Foxhounds long-range AA-9 "Amos".
So, if the F-14 stands a better winner against a Mig-31 or Su-30, compared to the F-15, it's better
Tactics.Or better still, an F-14D against a Mig-31
The US could only principally depend on the F-14 and F-15 in dealing with the MIG-31. A loaded MIG-31 can outfly both the F-15 and F-14 due to its large internal tanks (means there is no need for drag punishing external tanks most of the time) and low bypass engine or turbojet that are optimised for high speed flying. Now, if MIG can only fly fast for a short period of time before it runs out of fuel, the same can be said for the F-14/15, as well as and MIG-31 has much internal fuel to empty mass ratio than F-14, but the F-14 has one advantage, the AIM-54. While the F-15 will have to turn back and run since it would have to risk getting much closer to the Mig than the F-14 would and on doing that, is in danger of getting hit by Foxhounds long-range AA-9 "Amos".
So, if the F-14 stands a better winner against a Mig-31 or Su-30, compared to the F-15, it's better
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