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Thread: F-22, stuff you should know

  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by lurker
    ...I think I saw a picture of the disassembled F-22 showing exposed radar, It was not looking movable. I'll look for it.
    Correct, it doesn't move. The beam is steered electronically.
    "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

  2. #167
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    So, why the pass band radome?

    p.s. Found a good picture to illustrate the subject. I think it may help some ... (^%*&&$!!) people to get a clue.
    Attached Images  

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by lurker
    So, why the pass band radome?
    It's not obvious?
    "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by highsea
    Semantics, but misleading in content.

    One of the biggest reflectors on any (radar equipped) AC is the radar antenna. You can rationalize however it pleases you, but the fact remains, and it's not a secret. So of course the antenna does allow for a stronger return at certain angles. This is the main reason the F-117 didn't use on board radar.

    One way to deal with this is to orient the antenna so the returns do not reflect back to the emitter. This is a common technique, used on the F-22 and other AC. Other techniques exist, in the form of various screens, etc. and are used in combination with more basic geometric methods.
    I didn't say radar didn't reflect. I said it didn't add to the RCS. And I did say quote:

    No, radar may add to the detectability of an aircraft, but it won't add to the RCS. Apples and oranges.

    Which is in fact true. Another fact is that your post didn't refute anything from my original claim. So it isn't semantics.

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by highsea
    It's not obvious?
    It's obvious that we have people with the very different level of knowledge on this board. It's better to make everything verbalized.

    p.s. Or even visualized with color pictures and big fonts for some.
    Last edited by lurker; 24 Jan 06, at 21:33.

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defcon 6
    I didn't say radar didn't reflect. I said it didn't add to the RCS.
    Of course it adds to the RCS when seen from the correct angle. What do you think makes up the RCS?

    Reflectors.

    Hello???
    "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by highsea
    Of course it adds to the RCS when seen from the correct angle. What do you think makes up the RCS?

    Reflectors.

    Hello???
    Actually your totally wrong.

    Heres why:

    1.) The RCS is a measurement of the radar ping off surfaces of an aircraft that is of near constant value. Because if your radar waves were picked up by enemy radar installations it could vary depending on speed, elevation, distance, angle ect. So that the radar received by an opposing radar system would be inconcistent. A radar reflection as you put it is not what the opposing system would pick up since radar emitted from an aircraft would not have bounced off of anything, hence it would have no pattern. Instead they would receive a straight signal, which consequentally wouldn't convey any type of information related to an RCS. For instance radar waves bouncing off a B-52 will come back in a certain pattern and an experienced radar operator will see a large blip on their screen, and they will know either through refference or experience that such a blip is a B-52 (Because each plane as a somewhat exact RCS singature in point decimal format), or at least know that the blip is large therefore most likely a bomber. A F-22 however spitting radar waves however will not be detected as a "RCS" since those waves coming from the aircraft have no signature to them (no pattern) because they didn't bounce off of anything. Instead the radar operator will probably be able to figure distance and maybe altitude, but again, that doesn't constitute as an RCS. So as I said, they are two independant variables in the great stealth equation. Radar waves do not add to the RCS.


    2.) Radar emitted from an aircraft won't be received as a constant value. How much opposing radar picks up could depend on a variety of factors. Therefore it cannot be assesed as part of the RCS.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defcon 6
    Actually your totally wrong.

    Heres why:

    1.) The RCS is a measurement of the radar ping off surfaces of an aircraft that is of near constant value. Because if your radar waves were picked up by enemy radar installations it could vary depending on speed, elevation, distance, angle ect. So that the radar received by an opposing radar system would be inconcistent. A radar reflection as you put it is not what the opposing system would pick up since radar emitted from an aircraft would not have bounced off of anything, hence it would have no pattern. Instead they would receive a straight signal, which consequentally wouldn't convey any type of information related to an RCS. For instance radar waves bouncing off a B-52 will come back in a certain pattern and an experienced radar operator will see a large blip on their screen, and they will know either through refference or experience that such a blip is a B-52 (Because each plane as a somewhat exact RCS singature in point decimal format), or at least know that the blip is large therefore most likely a bomber. A F-22 however spitting radar waves however will not be detected as a "RCS" since those waves coming from the aircraft have no signature to them (no pattern) because they didn't bounce off of anything. Instead the radar operator will probably be able to figure distance and maybe altitude, but again, that doesn't constitute as an RCS. So as I said, they are two independant variables in the great stealth equation. Radar waves do not add to the RCS.


    2.) Radar emitted from an aircraft won't be received as a constant value. How much opposing radar picks up could depend on a variety of factors. Therefore it cannot be assesed as part of the RCS.

    ROFL

    ... Wanted to say something... but no... this is too funny
    Last edited by lurker; 25 Jan 06, at 05:10.

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusky
    Can anyone actually refute any points in that article with factualy backed up counter-points?

    Rusky according to the logic of your original source, no air force (included Russian AF and Chinese AF) can threat US AF even without F-22. Imply that so called "wonder dogfighter" like Sukhoi Su-27, Su-30, Su-37, Su-47 and Mig 1.44 are just tons of garbages .

  10. #175
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    Thank you Highsea and Lurker. I am quite far from radar technologies and it was interesting to learn something new on this. I did not know that F-117 does not have radar.... then how does it guides its missiles/bombs?

    Another question that I have - is emmitting antena the same as receiving antena on the onboard radars? Or there are two antenas there?

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry
    Another question that I have - is emmitting antena the same as receiving antena on the onboard radars? Or there are two antenas there?
    Just one of course.

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry
    .... then how does it guides its missiles/bombs?
    The weapons are laser or GPS guided. The pilots use FLIR and DLIR for targeting, and INS and GPS for navigation.

    Defcon- your post makes no sense to anyone but yourself. I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about. An AC's RCS is not an isotropic value.
    "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by lurker
    ROFL

    ... Wanted to say something... but no... this is too funny
    Considering that you've been wrong in everything you've said against me on this thread so far, I have doubts you have anything to say

    But, if you have something to say, then say it.

  14. #179
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    Defcon- your post makes no sense to anyone but yourself. I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about. An AC's RCS is not an isotropic value.
    The RCS is indeed a number. If you are saying otherwise, you are wrong.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by highsea
    The weapons are laser or GPS guided. The pilots use FLIR and DLIR for targeting, and INS and GPS for navigation.

    Defcon- your post makes no sense to anyone but yourself. I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about. An AC's RCS is not an isotropic value.
    Thank you Lurker and Highsea. Now another one if you have time!

    Is RSC different from different perspectives..... like front... rear.... sides... top... botom.... other various angles? What is a radar cross section figure means? Something average of that?

    Sorry for asking this basic questions. I did my search but did not read results yet.

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