Izzat so? Yeah, that'll fix everything. Shall I perhaps redirect you to the ever popular and beloved UN resolution 242?Originally Posted by grace
Your suggestion does not allow for borders neither secure nor free from threats. Moreover, you are effectively condoning terrorism and voicing your support for terror groups such as Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade and many others. You have every right to your opinion and I personally will not call upon the moderators for your breach of forum rules and guidelines regarding condoning terrorism, acts of terrorism or terror groups. (Forum guidelines revised 3/13/11, § 1, 7. advocating acts that are unlawful. 8. expressing support for groups that are internationally recognized as terrorist or criminal organizations.) I will, however, tell you that I personally find your calling for my death at the hands of those you support in terrorist groups is highly offensive and insulting. Perhaps you are not used to this, and I doubt you've had much contact with many Israelis, so let me please make this extremely personal: You are in effect requesting and supporting the death of a person behind this computer. If you can live with knowing that you wish for the death of the person taking the time to respond to your posts merely because of their nationality and nothing else, then so be it, and may it rest on your conscience.Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;
I wonder, friend, what is your view of Hamas' repeated declarations of war against Israel and that a state of war exists between Gaza and Israel?
Tell me friend, have you read the recently published Levy Report? Have you heard of or read the protocols of the San Remo conference calling for “the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people”? In a nutshell, the report is highly critical of the government, stating "we wish to stress that the picture that has been displayed before us regarding Israeli settlement activity in Judea and Samaria does not befit the behavior of a state that prides itself on, and is committed to, the rule of law", finding Israel's actions regrettable, but concludes that the settlement in itself is not illegal. Israel has just as much right as the Palestinians to build in the West Bank, though again the report criticizes Israel for the manner and method in which the building has been taking place and demands that the government "clarify its policy on West Bank Jewish building, and ensure that all future settlement construction proceeds with the proper authorizations and permits “in accordance with the law”"
Now, obviously one could argue with the report's findings, declare it a whitewash or anything else you desire, but the fact remains that an Israeli Supreme Court justice,a former Foreign Ministry legal adviser and a former deputy president of the Tel Aviv District Court, all with experience in Israeli law and international law reached these conclusions.
Furthermore, I personally take umbrage at your comments that we should "pray that the muslim brothers and sisters forgive you".
Finally, I do believe that you have a mistake here with your request to increase Gaza's northern borders so that there is no border between Israel and Egypt. I don't know if you've had the opportunity to look at a map recently, but Gaza's northern borders are with Israel, near the city of Ashkelon, the western borders are the Mediterranean Sea and the southern borders are with Egypt. So I'm going to assume here that your request is actually to increase Gaza's southern borders to exclude any possibility of an Egyptian/Israeli border. Now, even if we were to take your ides under consideration and take the ludicrous step of expanding Gaza's borders all the way from Gaza proper down to Eilat to completely remove and and all borders between Egypt and Israel (You can't argue that Eilat is Palestinian, we captured that one in 1948), you still haven't solved the one insurmountable problem that makes a two-state solution nothing more than hogwash: How are you going to connect between even this expanded Gaza of yours and the West Bank? Do you propose to cut Israel in half in order to make room for this new Palestinian state of yours?
Last edited by bigross86; 23 Jul 12, at 22:42.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.
Yeah that was one of the more pompous and condescending comments I've seen in a long time, not to mention reeking of a massive inferiority complex.
Forgive you for what? Utterly destroying every last Muslim army that has tried for the last 60+ years to remove Israel from the map?
Among the community of nations, Pakistan today stands out on one hand as a petty thug brandishing a dangerous weapon, and at other times as a concubine, sleeping with anyone willing to pay for her expensive tastes. ~ Tarek Fatah
TH, I don't know what he wants me to apologize for, but it personally pisses me off.
Grace, another question on a slightly unrelated topic, but I don't see the need to open a new thread for this, I'm just glad I have a proper Egyptian whom I can ask the following questions. Tell me, what are your thoughts on the goings-on in the following video? Do all Egyptians, or at least the Egyptians that you know agree with the sentiments shown in this video? I won't say what they are, I think it would speak louder if people watch the video for themselves.
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.
- justification: insecure borders - yawn
- claims I support terrorist organizations - nope
- claims I call for his personal death - nope
- is gaza and israel at war? - yep
- israeli settlements pass israeli muster, barely, I mean it was close, but it is ok. Admonishes israel for some of the ways this has been accomplished. israel seems to be humble about what they have done...oh, no. It was Netanyahoo blowing his nose... - there is no justification for israeli military and security forces to operate in palestinian territory. They need to get back behind the 67 lines. The israelis can keep the settlements, I suppose, but given that law and order issues within palestine, their security may be compromised. Maybe they should leave.
- automatically assumes he is personally responsible for the actions of the zionists and the government of israel, since before 1948. -
- is indignant at the idea of being asked to pray for peace and forgiveness. -
- does not seem to understand that a palestine border defined by the egyptian border, from Rafah to Eilat, up to the west bank, and then dips below Be'er Sheva to connect back to gaza, would create two contiguous states, israel and palestine. -
Wow! What is this?
Um, yeah, let's look at what you really said: "pray that the muslim brothers and sisters forgive you"
Among the community of nations, Pakistan today stands out on one hand as a petty thug brandishing a dangerous weapon, and at other times as a concubine, sleeping with anyone willing to pay for her expensive tastes. ~ Tarek Fatah
Friend, you're new here so please allow me to explain how we do things here. The common method is to use the Quote/Response method, which I will use below. Either way, no matter which method you prefer to use, the above is not a proper response. Back up your claims with facts or opinion, don't dismiss things with one word because you don't agree with them. We would like to know your opinion on the subject, and I'm fairly certain we don't have any mind readers here as of yet.
- justification: insecure borders - yawn
- claims I support terrorist organizations - nope
- claims I call for his personal death - nope
- is gaza and israel at war? - yep
- israeli settlements pass israeli muster, barely, I mean it was close, but it is ok. Admonishes israel for some of the ways this has been accomplished. israel seems to be humble about what they have done...oh, no. It was Netanyahoo blowing his nose... - there is no justification for israeli military and security forces to operate in palestinian territory. They need to get back behind the 67 lines. The israelis can keep the settlements, I suppose, but given that law and order issues within palestine, their security may be compromised. Maybe they should leave.
- automatically assumes he is personally responsible for the actions of the zionists and the government of israel, since before 1948. -
- is indignant at the idea of being asked to pray for peace and forgiveness. -
- does not seem to understand that a palestine border defined by the egyptian border, from Rafah to Eilat, up to the west bank, and then dips below Be'er Sheva to connect back to gaza, would create two contiguous states, israel and palestine. -
Given the current Palestinian/Arab hostile attitude towards Israel which calls not only for a Palestinian state but also the eradication of every single Jew and the State of Israel, do you not think that borders nine miles wide that would allow rocket-fire on Israeli cities from high points in the West Bank as well as putting Ben-Gurion International Airport at immediate risk of Surface-to-Air missiles can be considered insecure? Unless, of course you can guarantee with 100% certainty that there will be no hostile fire or attitude on behalf of the Palestinians, which, based on your further comments about the safety of the settlers, you obviously can't guarantee.
So when you said "Every action by actors in the region, against Israel, is perfectly legitimate", what exactly were you referring to?[*]claims I support terrorist organizations - nope
Again, the above quote. You say that "EVERY action... is perfectly legitimate. This by it's nature also includes acts of terrorism. This also means that you support the call by various Palestinian and Arab factions for the extermination of Jews, Israelis, and the State of Israel. I happen to fall under all three categories.[*]claims I call for his personal death - nope
Very good. So this would mean that while the state of war legitimizes Palestinian actions from Gaza into Israel, wouldn't that also legitimize Israeli action into Gaza? Would that also not vilify members of Hamas and other terrorist organizations that use human shields, indiscriminately fire rockets at civilian targets and store munitions/fire weapons from schools, mosques and UN warehouses?[*]is gaza and israel at war? - yep
Why is it that once the Palestinians have a proper state Israelis and Palestinians wouldn't be able to have peaceful relations and Israeli would have to fear for their lives? Might it have something to do with the calls by Mahmoud Abbas and Ambassador Maen Rashid Areikat that Jews will not be ALLOWED to live in Palestine. Without the intent to invoke Godwin's Law, the word some folks used to use for that was Judenrein/Judenfrei[*]israeli settlements pass israeli muster, barely, I mean it was close, but it is ok. Admonishes israel for some of the ways this has been accomplished. israel seems to be humble about what they have done...oh, no. It was Netanyahoo blowing his nose... - there is no justification for israeli military and security forces to operate in palestinian territory. They need to get back behind the 67 lines. The israelis can keep the settlements, I suppose, but given that law and order issues within palestine, their security may be compromised. Maybe they should leave.
I'm sorry, friend, where did you get that? Is it when you demanded that the Israelis (among which I am included) pray for forgiveness, or was it when I associated myself with the Israelis and the IDF that captured Eilat in 1948? Guess what, I am Israeli (and a proud one at that), and a Staff Sergeant in the Armored Corps of the IDF Reserves. I am also a staunch Zionist.[*]automatically assumes he is personally responsible for the actions of the zionists and the government of israel, since before 1948. -
Indignant at praying for peace? Not at all. You'd be surprised how many different Jewish prayers recited three times a day have a wish and desire for peace. I do take offense at being told that I must pray for forgiveness.[*]is indignant at the idea of being asked to pray for peace and forgiveness. -
First of all, it would help if you had given this description the first time around, it would make things much easier for the rest of us to understand. However, what I'm trying to understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that your desire for a state wishes for Israel to give up sovereign land captured in 1948 in order to create a contiguous Palestinian state? What is the rational for that? I'm sorry if I'm not understanding this entirely, perhaps if you could even draw us a simple map with hand drawn lines (even in something as simple as MS Paint), we would be able to better visualize your proposal/idea for a contiguous Palestinian state[*]does not seem to understand that a palestine border defined by the egyptian border, from Rafah to Eilat, up to the west bank, and then dips below Be'er Sheva to connect back to gaza, would create two contiguous states, israel and palestine. -
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.
Is always greatly amused when zionists use the principle of Lebensraum to defend its actions in their "new" state. Lebensraum? Really? I do love a good irony...
easy-peasy, except I cannot upload images
ahhh.......
Terrorism is a tactic, connected to an in-depth warfare strategy. I do not support it. I do not support war of any kind, kinetic or economic or ethnic or religious or political. Since there is an unresolved war, since the, what, the 1930s, asymmetric kinetic warfare balances symmetric kinetic and economic and ethnic and religious and political warfare. Therefore, it is legitimate.
I am only repeating Scripture. For sure the obligation also rests on the palestinians to pray for understanding and forgiveness and mercy. I never said that only one party is responsible for having committed grave sin.
Why do you want to get involve in someone else's war?
Chimo
I'm just spreading love to the ends of the earth, with my heart, with my words, with my actions.
love
truthfulness
non-harmfulness
generosity
brotherhood
sisterhood
By getting involved in other people's fights? By choosing one side over the other? By discussing the merits of war?
Chimo
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