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Thread: And As Soon As We Do Something Good on the PR Front...

  1. #1
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    And As Soon As We Do Something Good on the PR Front...

    IDF officer who beat activist suspended

    IDF officer who beat activist suspended

    Lt. Col. Shalom Eisner says he should not have flung his M-16 rifle on Danish activist but claims activists had beaten him with sticks, broke his finger. PM Netanyahu condemns incident
    Yoav Zitun

    Lieutenant-Colonel Shalom Eisner regretted an incident in which he beat a foreign activist with an M-16 rifle on Sunday. "I should not have flung my weapon like that," he told his associates. "But those are 60 seconds out of a two-hour event," he noted.

    He has been suspended from his post and IDF chief of Staff Benny Gantz said he regarded the incident with the utmost severity. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu condemned the incident and said that "such conduct is not characteristic of IDF soldiers and commanders and has no place in the IDF and the State of Israel."

    Central Command Chief Major-General Nitzan Alon ordered an immediate inquiry of the event. It has been decided that Eisner be suspended until the full investigation is completed. Meanwhile, the Military Advocate General has ordered an IMP (Investigating Military Police) investigation. IDF chief Gantz said: "This event does not reflect the IDF's values and will be thoroughly investigated and handled with the necessary severity."



    Lt. Col. Eisner with bandaged hand after incident

    Ynet has obtained Eisner's version of events as he told it to his associates. The deputy commander of the Jordan Valley Territorial Brigade said that after hearing of the activists' intention of blocking Route 90 he showed up at the scene and ordered the forces to prevent the blocking of the road.

    "I explained to the activists that many travelers were using the road because of the holiday and that they are posing a major security risk," he said. Eisner noted he had done the same thing when groups of right-wing activists had tried to access the road for protests.

    He said he allowed the activists to demonstrate inside the village of Ouja and ride off the road. "All was calm and in control and that is why I didn't bring a water canon and gave them 15 minutes to protest," he said.

    "It was a group of 60 activists and suddenly two buses arrived and the activists all together called to block the road while closing our barrier. One of the Palestinian organizers told me at this stage that she no longer had control over the event."



    'One punch too many'

    Lt. Col. Eisner claims that some of the protesters started attacking him with sticks which caused one of his fingers to break. He also suffered a major injury in his wrist which required a cast. "The weapon was the only thing I had in my hands. The whole thing lasted 60 seconds, we prevented them from getting on the road and they boarded the bus. Obviously, they didn't show the part where they attacked us with sticks in the video."

    Eisner's jeep contained a crowd dispersal kit which was not used during the event. "There was no reason for me to fire a gas grenade as there had been no violence in the course of two hours of dialogue. I thought about using the kit, but I decided it would be better to let them calm down."



    Lt. Col. Eisner beating one of the activists

    Lt. Col. Eisner's associates say that the highly esteemed officer had demonstrated restraint in previous incidents. In one instance, he helped deliver the baby of a Palestinian woman at a checkpoint and in another chased after Jewish drivers who had ran over a Palestinian girl and left her on the road. "I may have given one punch too many but I'm against violence as a concept. Sadly, the media reports are all that will be remembered," he said.

    "I could have stopped them but I didn't because I wanted a peaceful solution to the event. It's obvious the video had been edited and that it caused damage to the State of Israel. We should have had our own documenting crew," Eisner remarked.

    "What they were trying to do risked my life and the lives of many others. We maintained restraint for two hours. Some of the soldiers told me, 'Stop it, they're inciting.' I should have been better prepared. They caught us off guard. I used whatever I had in my hands."

    Some of Eisner's former subordinates said he showed restraint during riots and always opts for the path of negotiations. "The video is tendentious and edited," they said.
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    Truth be told, I buy his story. I've been at that exact location and I've been through my fair share of protests both from Palestinians, international "activists" and combinations of the two. I've been in that situation both as a regular soldier and also with the Company and Battalion CO's helping them manage the situation and handing out orders to the rest of the forces as the CO's radio operator, so I've experience it from both sides of the spectrum, command and subordinate.

    From reading as much as I can of the story, the only thing this guy did wrong aside from getting caught on camera was to let it go on as long as it did in the first place, and he admitted that. These things can go ugly quickly, just like it happened here, and a 2 hour peaceful protest suddenly turned violent when the buses showed up. Instead of focusing on the officer that was injured yet still stayed to do his job and fulfill his main mission of keeping Route 90 open, the spin is on a 60 second video clip showing him doing the mission he was told to do. As a Lt. Col. he is given discretion to choose how he performs the tasks given to him. If this wasn't caught on video, it would be a non-issue, but it was, and therefore it is. Bloody shame.
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    It's a shame not for what he did, but because he got taped?

    Ben, you surprise me.
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    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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    When given a mission, the ends sometimes justify the means. Clubbing someone with a gun in order to keep a main transportation route open once that person breaks the law and in front of the law enforcement who did everything to give them their right to protest is perfectly OK by me. This scum is not an Israeli citizen yet he chose to come to Israel to protest for something. He wants to stick his nose into something, that's fine. The Lt. Col then gave these people permission to protest as long as they keep the road open. Still, so far so good. Then the buses come and even the Palestinian organizer can't control them anymore. So now instead of cooperating with law enforcement and protesting peacefully, they are trying to do exactly what this officer's mission is to avoid: Close Route 90 to traffic on a holiday when hundreds of thousands of people are travelling the roads across Israel. This guy should be thankful that being clubbed with a gun is the only thing that happened to him.

    Now, no mention is made of the fact that the Lt. Col. was attacked with sticks or was injured by these so called "peace" activists. According to IDF Rules of Engagement as soon as they started attacking soldiers with sticks, the soldiers were well within their rights and duty to shoot live ammunition at their knees and lower to get them to stop. The Lt. Col. should be commended for choosing the less violent path, not condemned for ending the protest with far less violence than he had the right and obligation to use.

    And yes, Dok, the shame is that he got caught on tape. If he wasn't, he would be receiving praise for a mission executed properly with a minimum of violence and disruption of civilian traffic on the road. Instead, it got caught on tape, and now the Lt. Col. is being hung out to dry after faithfully and properly having executed his job for years
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigross86 View Post
    And yes, Dok, the shame is that he got caught on tape. If he wasn't, he would be receiving praise for a mission executed properly with a minimum of violence and disruption of civilian traffic on the road. Instead, it got caught on tape, and now the Lt. Col. is being hung out to dry after faithfully and properly having executed his job for years
    Horse Puckey! He was the Old Man. He should have acted the Old Man. The prick was a civie and acted the civie prick. The LCol should have just tossed his ass into jail. Instead, he let his temper control him. This is not some lowly private losing his cool. This was a command level officer who should have known better. Instead, he showed his people what not to do and now, his troops think it's perfectly ok to do this.
    Native likes this.
    Chimo

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    Is that a knife in another protester's hand? It might be. If it is, the RoE says the soldiers should have shot center mass in order to kill. That scum should thank the Lt. Col. and the soldiers that he's even alive.

    In any of dozens of protests in any of dozens of countries in the so called "civilized" world, protesters are beat by police with clubs, water hosed, tear gassed, rubber bullets are shot at them, and more. Israel does that too, when the situation demands it. The officer had the opportunity to order a water cannon, he chose not to because the protesters were being civilized. That changed instantly, and therefore the soldier's methods had to change accordingly. So something that is considered SOP by every single police force involved with a violent riot is for some reason wrong because an IDF Lt. Col did it. A brigade XO leading from the front, standing there with the soldiers he commands, sharing the same mission with them, is being hung out to dry for doing his job the way it was supposed to be done.

    Despicable
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    Ben,

    Stop trying to find excuses for the man. I don't accept his behaviour and neither should you. Professional soldiers have to the best that they can be. At times, better than the best that they can be. If we accept less, we are less. And this is less.
    Chimo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Horse Puckey! He was the Old Man. He should have acted the Old Man. The prick was a civie and acted the civie prick. The LCol should have just tossed his ass into jail. Instead, he let his temper control him. This is not some lowly private losing his cool. This was a command level officer who should have known better. Instead, he showed his people what not to do and now, his troops think it's perfectly ok to do this.
    In order to throw someone into jail, first you need to subdue him. Once they attacked him with sticks, the RoE say he is allowed to return proportionate violence and is even allowed to shoot them in the legs below the knees. The fact is that the man only has some stitches and not a prosthetic leg, and that is merely because the Lt. Col. chose to use a lesser amount of violence that was available to him.
    Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigross86 View Post
    In order to throw someone into jail, first you need to subdue him. Once they attacked him with sticks, the RoE say he is allowed to return proportionate violence and is even allowed to shoot them in the legs below the knees. The fact is that the man only has some stitches and not a prosthetic leg, and that is merely because the Lt. Col. chose to use a lesser amount of violence that was available to him.
    And he did it himself instead of ordering a Sgt to do it. Again, Horse Puckey.
    Chimo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Ben,

    Stop trying to find excuses for the man. I don't accept his behaviour and neither should you. Professional soldiers have to the best that they can be. At times, better than the best that they can be. If we accept less, we are less. And this is less.
    I'm not trying to find excuses. I've been exactly where this man has been, both as a soldier receiving orders from the command level and as a radio operator relaying orders from the command level to the soldiers and expanding on them when necessary. That's why I was chosen to be the CO's radio operator, because I had the situational awareness and the CO trusted me to control the forces for him while he was dealing with the bigger picture.

    I had to know the situation, know the RoE by heart, know how to do the mission the CO gave me with the forces available and with the least amount of violence possible. I was in protests both larger and smaller that degraded to violent protests. Some of them were solved with riot control ammunition, some with a couple well placed rifle butts. Once the protesters turn violent, the CO has a lot more leeway at his disposal to execute his original mission properly, in this case keeping Route 90 open.
    Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

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    He acted wrong! Period! He wasn't controlling the situation. He wasn't even controlling himself.

    What if he was injured or killed? He immediately denied his unit of a commander.
    Chimo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    And he did it himself instead of ordering a Sgt to do it. Again, Horse Puckey.
    I've been in protests with 8 different company and battalion CO's and XO's, and they all were out there with the rest of the soldiers, getting stones and Molotov cocktails thrown at them and standing line in line with the soldiers subduing the protests.

    You don't reach Lt. Col if you have a history of this, and like his previous subordinates said, something like this has never happened before. Again, from someone who's been there and done that in the SAME EXACT PLACE, every single thing the Lt. Col did, from the beginning of the event until the very end was executed properly, aside from the fact that he let them stay for 2 hours in the first place.
    Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigross86 View Post
    I've been in protests with 8 different company and battalion CO's and XO's, and they all were out there with the rest of the soldiers, getting stones and Molotov cocktails thrown at them and standing line in line with the soldiers subduing the protests.
    UNPROFOR had their share of hostile protests with hostile snipers watching. Being exposed to danger does not give you permission to act stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigross86 View Post
    You don't reach Lt. Col if you have a history of this, and like his previous subordinates said, something like this has never happened before. Again, from someone who's been there and done that in the SAME EXACT PLACE, every single thing the Lt. Col did, from the beginning of the event until the very end was executed properly, aside from the fact that he let them stay for 2 hours in the first place.
    And he screwed himself by letting his temper grabbed hold. It only takes one event ... and this was his one.
    Chimo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    He acted wrong! Period! He wasn't controlling the situation. He wasn't even controlling himself.

    What if he was injured or killed? He immediately denied his unit of a commander.
    He was controlling the situation until a curve ball was thrown, one the Palestinian protest organizer didn't see coming either.

    The threat of death has never prevented unit CO's from leading from the front and will not prevent them from leading from the front now. It has and always will be a part of IDF ethos: Leaders lead from the front, alongside their men
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    So have I. Being exposed to danger does not give you permission to act stupid.

    And he screwed himself by letting his temper grabbed hold. It only takes one event ... and this was his one.
    You can't ascribe emotion to this, because you don't know that there was emotion involved. Look at the facts. They attacked him with sticks and injured him. He was within his rights to use gunfire to subdue the protest, he chose to use the butt of his gun instead. You claim he lost his temper. I look at it that he kept his cool and made the right decision that prevented even more violence and possibly fatalities
    Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

    Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

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