Thread: Israeli Propaganda

Originally Posted by astralis

667,



re: the latter, propaganda works both sides; what do you think this thread is?

re: the former, i'd say they have. obviously it's all relative, but frankly israel has seen far worse (see the intifadas).

Sir, I strongly disagree with your observation that this thread is a propaganda in the same line as what the Palis resort to. Thanks to individuals like BG and others, I am no longer ignorant about the reality in Israel. You might assume that the lefty fools in American colleges who overwhelmingly support the Palis, are harmless. However, I don't subscribe to the same opinion, every cent which fills the Pali coffers contributes to their war effort whose ultimate goal is to exterminate the Jews, the Hamas doesn't even lie about it's charter.

Originally Posted by USSWisconsin

I've seen too much of these lies - an aquantence was recently caught posting lies about politicians on FB - she argued that if she managed to convince even one person not to vote for her "enemy" that it was worth it - well - her integrety is now well know and anything she says is probably a lie. If I don't have time to verify (normally the case) I simply assume she is lying when she makes any statements or claims. She has no integrity or respect for the truth by her own admission. If she said it was raining - I'd need to verify that.

These Hamas assholes who persistantly try to murder children are a known commodity - murderers, liars and scum - everyone of them.

Sir, I have a similar "friend" in FB who is an Indian Muslim. I regularly debunk her photo posts about supposed Israeli cruelty on the Palis. Finally in exasperation, she retorted that even if the photos are lies, according to her the ends can justify the means. By "end", she was referring to the extinction of Israel replaced with a Muslim country called Palestine. I didn't have the heart to tell her that Palestine will only exist as a state in her mind.....

Originally Posted by 667medic

It is because of such shameless propaganda that I reformed from a Pali apologist to a fanatical supporter of Israel.

Is this supposed to be an improvement ?

You changed horses but still look at it in a binary way. That means you're only capable of seeing things in black & white when there is a shed load of grey. These two groups have whcked each other so many times since 1948, its impossible to know who is more right or wrong. In fact thats a simplistic but ultimately useless way to look at it.

You don't make up your mind on the basis of propaganda but on actions taken by the parties. That only works for whatever round they happen to be in.

Originally Posted by Double Edge

Is this supposed to be an improvement ?

You changed horses but still look at it in a binary way. That means you're only capable of seeing things in black & white when there is a shed load of grey. These two groups have whcked each other so many times since 1948, its impossible to know who is more right or wrong. In fact thats a simplistic but ultimately useless way to look at it.

The Palis might want peace but the extermination of the Jews will be the icing on the cake. I have never heard of a Jew who would say that he fathered a 100 kids so that they can fight with the enamy but I know of Palis who have said exactly that. I believe in grey but the majority of the Palis and Muslim seem to only have a unipolar position...

You don't make up your mind on the basis of propaganda but on actions taken by the parties.

The Palis regularly dish out propaganda as supposed facts and this in turn has consequences when lefty fools can't distinguish fact from fiction....

667,

I strongly disagree with your observation that this thread is a propaganda in the same line as what the Palis resort to. Thanks to individuals like BG and others, I am no longer ignorant about the reality in Israel.

oh, israeli propaganda isn't the same as pali propaganda, but nevertheless it is propaganda.

and frankly, i don't think being a "fanatical supporter" of Israel helps. even looking at it from a rational israeli standpoint, blank check american support for israel only has the tendency to encourage hard-liners to support adventurism and strategically untenable positions. the end result being that israel becomes weaker than ever in the long-run, and still more dependent on US protection.

i don't think that this is the interests of either america or israel.

Originally Posted by astralis

667,



oh, israeli propaganda isn't the same as pali propaganda, but nevertheless it is propaganda.

and frankly, i don't think being a "fanatical supporter" of Israel helps. even looking at it from a rational israeli standpoint, blank check american support for israel only has the tendency to encourage hard-liners to support adventurism and strategically untenable positions. the end result being that israel becomes weaker than ever in the long-run, and still more dependent on US protection.

i don't think that this is the interests of either america or israel.

Sir, I think that American support for Israel has more to do with votes and money rather than any idealogical motivation......

Originally Posted by Double Edge

These two groups have whcked each other so many times since 1948, its impossible to know who is more right or wrong.

But it's possible to know which side has the grand objective that results in the whacking, and it isn't Israel.

You don't make up your mind on the basis of propaganda but on actions taken by the parties. That only works for whatever round they happen to be in.

You'll get nowhere deciding on actions either. You have to identify the aggressor and his objective. We all know what Hamas' objective is. As nasty as Israel gets at times, its whacking is defensive in nature.

Originally Posted by 667medic

Sir, I think that American support for Israel has more to do with votes and money rather than any idealogical motivation......

Official and political support is a reflection of the opinion of a majority of Americans. Generally speaking, Americans don't vote for candidates who don't share their convictions.

Originally Posted by 667medic

The Palis might want peace but the extermination of the Jews will be the icing on the cake.

I'm not convinced of that and thats an opinion formed since the early 2000s. A bitter realisation after the heady 90s when anything seemed possible.

Originally Posted by 667medic

I have never heard of a Jew who would say that he fathered a 100 kids so that they can fight with the enamy but I know of Palis who have said exactly that.

Anecdotal

Originally Posted by 667medic

I believe in grey but the majority of the Palis and Muslim seem to only have a unipolar position...

Their media is biased.

Originally Posted by 667medic

The Palis regularly dish out propaganda as supposed facts and this in turn has consequences when lefty fools can't distinguish fact from fiction....

Its not just lefties but anybody that cannot keep abreast of both sides of the story. If i look at the articles in my local ,they are mostly pro-pal. You keep reading stories like that for years and its no wonder public opinion shifts against Israel. I don't know what Israel can do when people become conditioned like this.

If Ben was not here i would be lost.

Originally Posted by JAD_333

But it's possible to know which side has the grand objective that results in the whacking, and it isn't Israel.

That objective stems for a non-recognition of Israel. Pals were supposed to recognise Israel in 1993, but their actions do not suggest this.

To recognise Israel means capitulation.

Originally Posted by JAD_333

You'll get nowhere deciding on actions either. You have to identify the aggressor and his objective.

Doesn't this change with each new round. So you end up this comparmentalised way of looking at it. It keeps on happening, the situation is fluid and without end. It is hellishly difficult to keep up.

Originally Posted by JAD_333

We all know what Hamas' objective is. As nasty as Israel gets at times, its whacking is defensive in nature.

Hamas, yes but what about the PLO.

"it's certainly a factor. compare american policies towards israel prior to 1967 or even 1973 (where the US only started to really help the israelis when they were going to go nuclear) to the ones we have today..."

I see a massive change within America resulting from Arab actions when provided the means to destroy Israel. Both 1967 and 1973 reflect an accrual of weaponry by confrontation states theretofore unseen. Given that capability the focus of those states was the elimination of Israel.

What, might I ask you, has changed short of Israel's current air-ground dominance? What might we expect if weapon parity is again achieved? History suggests another effort to eliminate Israel and I see nothing suggesting otherwise from both the halls of power and the arab/muslim street.

It's become a perverse point of pride IMV.

Originally Posted by S2

I see a massive change within America resulting from Arab actions when provided the means to destroy Israel. Both 1967 and 1973 reflect an accrual of weaponry by confrontation states theretofore unseen. Given that capability the focus of those states was the elimination of Israel.

Confirmed in the history section of the below report

U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel | FAS | Sept 16 2010

Originally Posted by S2

What, might I ask you, has changed short of Israel's current air-ground dominance? What might we expect if weapon parity is again achieved? History suggests another effort to eliminate Israel and I see nothing suggesting otherwise from both the halls of power and the arab/muslim street.

It's become a perverse point of pride IMV.

Your point on weapons parity is a good one. In essence what you're suggesting is that a balance of power in that region can only be maintained so long as there is an imbalance in weapons that Israel has vis-a-vis her many potential opponents.

Originally Posted by S2

What, might I ask..., has changed short of Israel's current air-ground dominance? What might we expect if weapon parity is again achieved? History suggests another effort to eliminate Israel and I see nothing suggesting otherwise from both the halls of power and the arab/muslim street.

It's become a perverse point of pride IMV.

s2:

This parity, where will it be achieved, in the region as a whole or only with the ME countries hostile to Israel? Would you count the forces of Jordan and Egypt in the equation, and if so, is it because you expect they would join in the attack?

"...Would you count the forces of Jordan and Egypt in the equation, and if so, is it because you expect they would join in the attack?"

How can you not? Both made war against Israel in both 1967 and 1973. Both are wracked by an internal stability crisis threatening to boil over. There is no history of enduring friendship-just an uneasy peace.

Parity won't keep the peace. It's at that point where the gambler might risk a good plan and some luck. Dominance, unfortunately, is required to do so.