Welcome to Pallywood

**bigross86** · 04 Mar 12,, 00:32

I've got no problem with Palestinian supporters. I find them highly delusional, but many people could say the same thing about us Israel supporters. The difference is that most of the Israeli supporters I know won't stoop to lies, especially if we know they are lies, to prove our point.

<Sarcasm>Hooray for the moral high ground!!!</Sarcasm>

**667medic** · 04 Mar 12,, 00:59

Originally Posted by bigross86

I've got no problem with Palestinian supporters. I find them highly delusional, but many people could say the same thing about us Israel supporters. The difference is that most of the Israeli supporters I know won't stoop to lies, especially if we know they are lies, to prove our point.

<Sarcasm>Hooray for the moral high ground!!!</Sarcasm>

Maybe that is the problem with Israel and her supporters, the lack of will to do the same kind of PR as your enemies. Like it or not you have an enemy who is willing to take extreme measures to exterminate your people. You are probably aware of MEMRI videos, they are clearly an eyeopener about Muslim mentality in general and also specifically on Palestinian mentality. I once saw a video about a Palestinian who fathered 100 kids for the explicit reason that he wants them to fight the Jews. You cannot practice morality with enemies such as these........

**bigross86** · 04 Mar 12,, 01:04

I'm aware of Memri and quote their work frequently. They're one of a few groups I'd love to work with when I finish my degree.

The morality is not for the Palestinians, I assure you. It's for the biased UN and UNSC that have passed more resolutions against Israel than against every other single nation on earth.

If I remember it might even be more than every other single nation on earth combined, but I don't remember exactly, so I won't present that as fact.

**Wayfarer** · 04 Mar 12,, 01:31

Originally Posted by bigross86

I've got no problem with Palestinian supporters. I find them highly delusional, but many people could say the same thing about us Israel supporters. The difference is that most of the Israeli supporters I know won't stoop to lies, especially if we know they are lies, to prove our point.

<Sarcasm>Hooray for the moral high ground!!!</Sarcasm>

Hey, you still control the Golan Heights!

**Doktor** · 04 Mar 12,, 08:37

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

Hey, you still control the Golan Heights!

Huh?

S2 · 04 Mar 12,, 08:56

Tell that troop to tuck in his bootlaces. He looks like a dirtbag.

**Wayfarer** · 04 Mar 12,, 09:02

Originally Posted by Doktor

Huh?

Moral High Ground = Golan heights, in the sense that Israel can exist because it still has it..... the connection was quite weak, I admit.

**Doktor** · 04 Mar 12,, 16:26

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

Moral High Ground = Golan heights, in the sense that Israel can exist because it still has it..... the connection was quite weak, I admit.

Israel can and will exist as long as they have allies in USA and Europe. GH is just a change in the negotiations that will take place somewhere at some time.

**Wayfarer** · 04 Mar 12,, 20:48

Originally Posted by Doktor

Israel can and will exist as long as they have allies in USA and Europe. GH is just a change in the negotiations that will take place somewhere at some time.

Anti-Israeli sentiment has been stirred to fever pitch, I've seen fellow students parade in the Fed.Square with Palestinian flags...not to mention the calls for a forced boycott on Max Brenner.

Not a lot of love for Israel in the West at the moment, is this going to translate into diminishing, rather than increasing political support for Israel as time goes on?, particularly when Israel could use it.

If Bigross could clarify, I think I recall seeing an article citing Israelis who were against the concept of U.S aid and assistance, rather saying that self-sufficiency was the path to take. Google so far has yielded no hits for this illusory group.

Not doubting the IDF, I don't think a force in the M.E currently barring ISAF and NATO could give it cause for serious worry. More dangerous is the international isolation that Israel is subject to, for as time goes on and the slower the economy takes to increase, the more insular people and likewise politicians will become. Fiscal constraints will simply place limits on what Europe and US can do, I've got no doubt that foreign aid would be one of the first victims of the long awaited budgetary cuts.

**Doktor** · 04 Mar 12,, 21:21

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

Anti-Israeli sentiment has been stirred to fever pitch, I've seen fellow students parade in the Fed.Square with Palestinian flags...not to mention the calls for a forced boycott on Max Brenner.

Not a lot of love for Israel in the West at the moment, is this going to translate into diminishing, rather than increasing political support for Israel as time goes on?, particularly when Israel could use it.

If Bigross could clarify, I think I recall seeing an article citing Israelis who were against the concept of U.S aid and assistance, rather saying that self-sufficiency was the path to take. Google so far has yielded no hits for this illusory group.

Not doubting the IDF, I don't think a force in the M.E currently barring ISAF and NATO could give it cause for serious worry. More dangerous is the international isolation that Israel is subject to, for as time goes on and the slower the economy takes to increase, the more insular people and likewise politicians will become. Fiscal constraints will simply place limits on what Europe and US can do, I've got no doubt that foreign aid would be one of the first victims of the long awaited budgetary cuts.

I see people not only protesting, but burning American flags all over the world, is USA isolated?

Even if you are right, and things go bad for Israel and they get isolated, that will last for few years, maybe decades, but the state will be there, on the map and Israelis will be dominant population in it. Can't trade the future of the whole country for a few handshakes when abroad.

As for the Israelis, My friend who is a Jew (one of the few here), once told me there is a sect in Israel praying to God to choose another people and to leave them alone. That's the beauty when you are fed and free, you can do whatever you think is right.

**Wayfarer** · 04 Mar 12,, 21:35

Originally Posted by Doktor

I see people not only protesting, but burning American flags all over the world, is USA isolated?

Even if the world hated America, they could not simply ignore the largest market on the planet. Israel, however, can be. America has the Atlantic and the Pacific. Israel has neither, and instead must contend with a handful of Arab nations. I'd say its cause for worry when your nearest geographical neighbours have that have traditionally been belligerent, continue to do so, and any allies you have overseas are too embroiled with their own problems to even consider the possibility of offering assistance. After the American withdrawal from the M.E and the shift to focusing on Asia/Taiwan Straits, one would have to question how ready America is for fiscally supporting, if not involving itself, in another war.

Even if you are right, and things go bad for Israel and they get isolated, that will last for few years, maybe decades, but the state will be there, on the map and Israelis will be dominant population in it. Can't trade the future of the whole country for a few handshakes when abroad.

Can you survive being isolated in a globalized interconnected marketplace? Some of the feats Israel has achieved are a testament to the tenacity of its people, but the potential for utter isolation would see it slowly destroyed.

Within Israeli demographics Haredi Jews which are placing a large strain on the social-security and healthcare nets are the fastest growing demographic. They also tend to be the most ultra-orthodox and conservative, whilst at the same time refusing to participate in military service, and being given legal exemption, I believe. Two differing fundamentalist religions in a volatile region is not a good mix.

As for the Israelis, My friend who is a Jew (one of the few here), once told me there is a sect in Israel praying to God to choose another people and to leave them alone. That's the beauty when you are fed and free, you can do whatever you think is right.

Reminds me of the Pianist. Sad movie

**bigross86** · 05 Mar 12,, 08:48

Wayfarer, no need to look too far, I'm also in favor of Israel slowly weaning itself off of the US fiscal support. the ~$4 billion a year we receive is nice, but is not essential, IMO. We would be much better off being a truly independent state, treating the US and other countries on equal footing, selling our goods wherever we can find a market, as opposed to giving the US a say in our foreign (and sometimes our domestic) policy.

There is a fine line here. We should not tell the US to bugger off, we don't need them anymore, because we do. But at the same token, we need to tell them that we don't need their free gifts anymore, we can stand on our own 2 feet. Sort of like a kid moving out of his parents' house into his own apartment. He still needs his parents and wants to maintain the good relationship they've built, but needs to do his own thing