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Thread: Massive Israeli air raids on Gaza

  1. #46
    Distant Deeps or Skies Senior Contributor HistoricalDavid's Avatar
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    I think the use of low-yield nukes, airbursted to reduce the effect of fallout on Israel, on Gaza would solve the problem once and for all. There is, after all, no such thing as an 'innocent' Palestinian, and death does indeed solve all problems - no man, no problem. The grave threat to Israel's very existence posed by Gaza's amateur rocketry clubs - staffed by 15-year-olds, in between zit-popping and Israel-hating - justifies this admittedly extreme measure, called for by extreme times; it is certainly comparable to 1948, 1967 and 1973.

    Perhaps there will be a backlash against such a... 'controversial' plan, but then the boldest, bravest plans always did have their critics. Israel has the right to defend itself, and it has the right to pursue revenge, willy-nilly of such petty issues as civilian casualties and the ultimately fraudulent peace process - after all, to repeat a point, Palestinians are not 'innocent', and of course this includes children incapable of political judgment, or even tying their own shoelaces.

    I also agree with Castellano's points - Pakistan receives somewhere in the region of 25x the aid, in fact, and yet spends half of it fighting the Taliban, half of it helping it, and half of it on shenanigans in Mumbai. In addition, it is an undoubted benefit to the US that the US gives Israel aid to buy US weapons and technology, which may be shared in a spirit of love with that staunch US ally, China, and suchlike.

    In fact, considering the recessive state of the US economy, aid to Israel should be boosted by 10x. Some of my opponents will accuse me of military Keynesianism. Nonsense, I say. FDR's public works projects were dirty un-American socialism, but US taxpayer-subsidised weapons to Israel represent a viable 'boost' in the best traditions of free-market economics. Traitorous purveyors of the hated 'Broken Window' fallacy will be denounced in the name of that great free-marketer, Mr Key-er, Hayek. Indeed, if they're not careful, veiled or open accusations of anti-Semitism shall be their reward.

    Of course, we can't leave the revenge to Israel alone. Her people suffered perhaps more than any other in WWII (excepting the Russians) and this only justifies the situation today. In the same spirit, we should not forget the right of Russia to nuke Germany for the 27 million of WWII, nor of Germany to return the favour (with borrowed nukes?) for the rape of German women, or the GDR's communism. China's right to nuke Japan is obvious, as is Japan's right to nuke the US, who has an especially strong claim to nuke the UK, and in particular Buckingham Palace. The survivors of the paramilitary wing of the London tourist board, the Grenadier Guards, will in turn kill some random denizens of Washington DC in suitable retaliation. Revenge is a tasty, productive activity which always achieves its intended effect of deterrence and indeed is the hallmark of civilised democratic nations, and this current round of airstrikes on police stations will silence the mass-murdering rocketry clubs once and for all, since they are located in the same places, and improve law and order in Gaza, as well as kindly provide material for Pallywood.

    Go Israel!
    Last edited by HistoricalDavid; 29 Dec 08, at 01:57.
    HD Ready?

  2. #47
    Senior Contributor Castellano's Avatar
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    Armchair Rocket-free Irony Reply.

    Your irony would probably attain a higher yield if focused into the British-French colonial arrangements in the Middle East. Great idea to create mental institutions like Saudi Arabia instead of countries, now isnīt it. Oh the Arabs, such an exotic culture impossible to understand from our ethnocentric, or island centric culture. And those Hasemite chicks are really hot, arenīt they? Why not give them a country? And the rest of the Middle East save Turkey to the other Arabs too? Just give them ALL of it. GREAT idea!

    Only maybe much of the problems today flow from appalling decisions made at that time. Maybe we should double check our Historical Knowledge.

    I doubt your revenge option will get any traction in Israel. Historically speaking, Israel has NEVER resorted to revenge and has NEVER attacked non-combatants. The only exception might be what happened in the village of Deir Yassim 60 years ago. Thatīs it. I challenge ANYBODY reading this to challenge ANYTHING I just said.

    But on the other hand that is precisely the systematic modus operandi of its enemies, who in a new moral low in the History of mankind, are now building their bunkers in civilian areas to protect their weapons. This despicable tactic counts on the morally obtuse in the West, and only on them, for they obviously donīt care much what their own populations think. For example, this is what Israel had to deal with just yesterday:

    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1230456496945

    Not even a ĻpoliceĻstation and rockets misteriously come out of the ground... Iīm reading the strike has been exceptionally well aimed at its targets, which I call terrorists...and understand me, I really feel when I see those adult men crying on TV, it is very painful, only I blame the real people responsible for instigating the violence. So whatīs your point? Are you saying that Israel has engaged in a wanton killing spree? Come out and say it then.

    I guarantee you that it is going to be exceptionally difficult for you to get any sort of high moral ground when discussing Israel conduct at War if Iīm around. But Iīm actually looking for that you try.

    GO ISRAEL!

    IGNORE IGNORANTS!

    And in the meantime, Iīm thinking...Gdansk/Danzig is Polish or German?
    Did you see that many Germans blowing Polish children to pieces as of late? Any complaints or whining?
    I didnīt see any. And magic, magic, magic: No need for nukes either.
    Maybe something was done right about East Prussia then, although in this case it should have been done in 67, it is too late now.

    You canīt agree or disagree on the fact that Pakistan is receiving 10X more aid than Israel, and that Israel receives as of now only military aid. Either it is true or it is false. My first source is a journalist, but Iīm looking for her original source to prove it, for a number of reasons, now also so you can eat your words.

    But perhaps the US should not have helped fund those F15s that wiped out Soviet Jets over the Bekaa valley. Although some Soviet generals are on record stating that was devastating for the Soviet Union. Or those F16s that raided Osirak. Iran, the US, and the rest of the World would be much much better off with the Sadam crime family in possession of nukes.

    Well, perhaps.

    I mean, Iīm not going to defend a greedy Israeli military contractor who tried to sell technology to the Chinese, but I want to see the Historical long run and all things considered, US aid to Israel has paid off in security terms (the Keynes argument being a red herring and a failed attempt for humor, Iīm sorry to say). I also think every American should be very proud for their support of Israel, I wished my own country did the same. This might not be important for you but it is for me. And on top of that moral consideration, I most certainly stand by my assertion that Israel has been the most productive ally for the US receiving aid from the US. It is what I gather from the Intel or Electronics guys. The night googles, the avionics and chips and all the rest of it.

    But I do want to know what is the US getting back from its aid to say...Egypt or South Korea. Just to put the whole thing in Historical Context, Iīm sure you will agree it is relevant for the discussion. And once that issue is settled I want to know why that aid is never questioned. Which is what matters to me. Because Iīm not an American taxpayer. I just happen to be from a place where the strait of Gibraltar is 15 kilometres wide, and maybe because of that, whether this is understood or not, I know EXACTLY what all this is all about.
    Last edited by Castellano; 29 Dec 08, at 04:54.

  3. #48
    Regular haroon's Avatar
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    I wonder what is meant when someone say to nuke the Palestinians in order to eradiate the so called terrorism. Imagine a territory which has not allowed to develop its economy, forced to live on aid, continuous political and military intervention in order not to stabilize yes that is none other then Palestine. What options do you give to those people who are helpless against advance artillery and air force do not they have a right to protest against oppression????

  4. #49
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    Air Strikes

    100% Justified, and if anything way too slow in their response. Hamaz, hizbollah need a firm and devistating blow to bring them to the table, their chose this path they have to reap the rewards.

    Israel has had for far too long had to endure this nonscence, massive airstrikes and possible missile strikes against these terrorists groups backers in their home countries (Syria/Iran) are in order, there is nothing like bringing the good news to the doorstep of those who propigate and finance such ventures, it worked for Gadaffi and it will work against Iran and Syria

  5. #50
    New Member barritus_tr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnFlint1985 View Post
    It is about time Israel respond to these terrorists. I hope they will use land forces as well.

    c'mone you are disingenuous.we(turkey) losted many people by pkk terrorists attack and we wanted defens myselves but european and u.s.a said same sentences ''you can resolve everything with dialogue''but now israel is killing innocent people (i do not defend kind of terrorism) and childrens aren't terrorist.it is carnage !
    I AM LEGEND...

  6. #51
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    an eye for an eye never leads to success, in this case Israel yet again has gone totally over the top. It is about time that the UK and US came off the fence, stopped supplying Israel with weapon systems and seriously condemed them for killing using profolactic fire i.e. aerial bombing.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnFlint1985 View Post
    It is about time Israel respond to these terrorists. I hope they will use land forces as well.


    I so second that!! They were warned, they won't listen, they deserve what they get.

    Have you noticed how every BBC picture contains an injured child? No men, no women, dogs or horses.

    What damned immense bias and propaganda!!

  8. #53
    Contributor Hitman817's Avatar
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    What do you think who will win this, Hamas or Israel, since they lost their last war against Hisbollah and I think Hamas had Instructors from Hisbollah as well as Iran?

  9. #54
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    Haroon

    Especially for last six months there is virtually a siege like situation in Gaza where oil or food can not be taken in the city just because Israel does not like it.
    And this violence will continue no matter who is in power in Palestine because that’s what Israel likes


    Okay, Israel controls its border crossings with Gaza and has closed them.

    But the Egyptians have also maintained the blockade on THEIR border crossings with Gaza.

    So please explain why it is wrong for Israel to close its border and perfectly okay for Egypt to close its border?

    Egypt doesn't like Hamas either. If Egypt would open its border the suffering would end today.

    The Palestinians walked away from a peace deal in 2000 which would have granted them a state.

    Israel was ready to sign a treaty then and give concessions. Since then Israel has been condemned no matter what they do. Better to be thought a pariah and survive than to lay down and fail.

    The covedrage on the BBC has been downright atrocious...they are revealing their attitudes abotu Israel going back to Partition in the 1940s. One studio host yesterday accused Israel of attempting "a final solution to the Palestinian problem..." while speaking with an Israeli goivernment spokesman once again displaying the snearing disdain the British government has had since Israel's inception.

    As for civilian casualties...of which I have heard numerous breathless reports...when Hamas placed its command and control centers and rocket launching sites in civilian neighborhoods they made those civilian centers legitimate targets.

    As for aground campaign? I believe, but I do not know, that the IDF will have learned its lessons from Lebanon.
    Remember that it is the Actions and not the Commission that make the Officer and that there is More expected from him than the title. – GEORGE WASHINGTON

  10. #55
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    Firstly nobody is actively targeting civilians. This is a war, bad things happen. Try reading up on the subject matter before spouting off such suggestions, Hamas and Hezbollah place air defense guns and rocket launchers on residential blocks and mosques, Israel uses surgical strikes as mush as possible. Bottom line bad things happen in war.
    Secondly, if Turkey is being attacked it has a right to defend itself, stop wining, go sort the problem out once and for all , problem solved. How many tims have Turkey invaded Iraq to "hunt" terrorists in massive number, still they have not solved the problem.

    Terrorist have to learn there is a price to pay of their activity's

  11. #56
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    My wish is simple, make it a massive air land and sea strike that devastates the majority of the terrorist cells, then stop, give the people a chance to say enough is enough of this hardships in the name of Iranian foreign policies, then make piece and rebuild and prosper.

    Don't get me wrong Israel has done plenty wrong, however they are perfectly correct in the assumption a strong response is respected by the Arabs. These are tribal people, who have a choice, the cycle of violence has gone on way too long, the question that should be asked in the Gaza strip by its residents is, Am I prepared to see my life, family and everything I love killed in the name of Iranian foreign policy:, I know what my answer would be!

  12. #57
    Military Professional HazeGrey's Avatar
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    Commander in charge U.S.Navy Europe(CINCUSNAVEUR) has ordered Vice Admiral James Winnefeld, Commander Sixth Fleet(COMSIXTHFLEET) based in Gaeta Italy, to "deploy with haste" U.S. Naval forces from CTF60(Battle Force),CCTF61(Amphibious Force), CTF62(Landing Force),CTF63(Logistics),CTF67(Maritime Surveillance)CTF68 and CTF69(subs) to the Eastern Mediterranean for "Peace Keeping" under the auspices of UN Resolution 1701. Haze Gray(U.S.) and Underway. Deja Vu?
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  13. #58
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    Peace Keeping, nice joke.

    If anything the Palestinian issue has demonstrated what a complete waste of time the USN is in peace keeping efforts.

    UN = faster way to spend other peoples money in copious amounts!

  14. #59
    Military Professional HazeGrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Prince View Post
    Peace Keeping, nice joke.

    If anything the Palestinian issue has demonstrated what a complete waste of time the USN is in peace keeping efforts.

    UN = faster way to spend other peoples money in copious amounts!
    I totallyyyyyy agree. I was part of the force in '83. It didn't work out quite as planned.

  15. #60
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    Ok that's a nice one.

    Question
    1. Does America have the forces to open another military front. (No)
    2. Does America think it will invade to save the peace. (No)
    3. Does America have the money to fight another conflict. (No)

    Solution
    Let the Israeli's do their thing, finish Hamas off their way, don't let our politicians be opinion poll reactive.

    The result will be Hamas is a listed terrorist organization sponsored by Iran, they need a bloody nise to bring them to the table.

    Problem solved!

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