Thread: Test Put to the New Leaders of the Palestinians

Israel cuts ties with Abbas

By Corinne Heller

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Mahmoud Abbas's inauguration to succeed Yasser Arafat today will be overshadowed by Israel's decision to cut ties with the new Palestinian president after a militant attack that killed six Israelis.

"Israel is severing all planned contacts with the Palestinians on all levels, from security to government leadership," a spokesman for Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said on Friday.

Palestinian Minister of Negotiation Affairs Saeb Erekat told Reuters that Israeli officials had called him to relay Sharon's decision to Abbas, who has said he wanted to talk militants into ending violence rather than confront them.

"I told them that we reject that you hold Abu Mazen responsible because he is not sworn in yet as president," Erekat said, using Abbas's nickname.

"The only way to end this vicious cycle of violence is by resuming peace talks and not suspending them."

Defying Abbas's calls for non-violence, militants from three Palestinian groups, including one belonging to his Fatah faction, carried out a bombing and shooting attack at the Karni cargo terminal between Israel and Gaza on Thursday.

Six Israelis and three Palestinian gunmen were killed in the assault at Gaza's main economic lifeline. It was the deadliest strike by militants in Gaza in a month.

Abbas, who is due to be inaugurated as president later on Saturday, condemned the assault and Israeli raids on militants, saying on Friday the violence did not "benefit peace".

The United States lined up behind Israel.

"The new (Palestinian) president ... (has) got to get these terrorists under control," U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell told Radio America.

"And what Prime Minister Sharon did today by temporarily, I hope, keeping contacts from taking place is once again to say to the Palestinians, 'I want to be a partner for peace. I want to move forward and I welcome the election of (Abbas) but you've got to get these
terrorists under control'."

Prospects for an end to four years of bloodshed appeared to brighten when Sharon called Abbas earlier this week to congratulate him on his victory in last Sunday's election.

It was the highest-level contact between the two sides in years. Israel had shunned Arafat, accusing him of fomenting violence, an allegation he always denied.

EVERYTHING IS CANCELLED

Sharon and Abbas had been widely expected to meet soon to discuss security coordination in the run-up to Israel's planned pullout from Gaza later this year and a possible resumption down the line of talks on peace and Palestinian statehood.

But Sharon's spokesman, Assaf Shariv, said: "Everything is cancelled until they (the Palestinians) take steps against terror, so we can see there is not only talk but also action."

Abbas, he said, "knows who carried out the attack, so he will be the one to stop them. It's very simple".

Israel shut all Gaza border crossings after the attack, suspending the movement of Palestinians and goods in and out of the territory. Israeli Defence Minister Shaul Mofaz ordered a series of military operations in Gaza, Israeli media reported.

http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissin...43&sid=5469097

"Everything is cancelled until they (the Palestinians) take steps against terror, so we can see there is not only talk but also action."


It's almost as if Israel had an alliance with the Islamists, everytime the Islamists pressure or seek to effect the peace process, Israel seems to oblige them by applying more pressure on those who would be their partners in the peace process -- once again, the Israeli are convincing themselves that the rest if the world will carry them on their backs regardless of what the Israeli end up doing - a serious mistake.

Give Abu Masem and the Israeli some elbow space.

Don't crowd them.

There will be those who will try to sabotage on both sides.

Let it not distract from the goal - Peace and two States.

Originally Posted by tarek

"Everything is cancelled until they (the Palestinians) take steps against terror, so we can see there is not only talk but also action."


It's almost as if Israel had an alliance with the Islamists, everytime the Islamists pressure or seek to effect the peace process, Israel seems to oblige them by applying more pressure on those who would be their partners in the peace process -- once again, the Israeli are convincing themselves that the rest if the world will carry them on their backs regardless of what the Israeli end up doing - a serious mistake.

I disagree. To expect Israel to do nothing when attack is illogical. What Israel did in this case was restrained. What they are doing is giving Abbas a chance to crack down on Terrorists. Consider what the Israelis usually do when something like this happens. They go and ride terrorists hide outs. Palestinians die. They didn't do that this time because this would cripple Abbas. They gave Abbas a chance. He must take it. The Palestinians have suffered from a warped culture and inept leadership for too long. This is Abbas' time to step up, lead, and stop terrorism. If he does not, the Palestinians will pay the price.

Leader

"To expect Israel to do nothing when attack is illogical"

Fair enuff, but you may be engaging in a straw man argument, after all, who has suggested that Israel do nothing?

What ofcourse does matter is the substance of the response - if the substance of the response is to suggest that the just elected President respond to a terrorist attack on the terms Israel demands or else, is to give aid and comfort to the exaqct aim the terrorist have - namely to demonstrate that the President even though elected by Palestinians remains a creature of the Israeli.

The terrorist attack is in reality an attack on the President, it is an atytempt to secure limits of operations for the terrorists - what the Israeli continue to do is ensure that the Palestinian president is limited to only that or those policies the Israel want pursued - once agin, painting the president as a Israeli creature and if he is not to be limited by the Isralei, then the Israeli will claim that they have no partner - it's a no win for the new Palestinian president. Exactly what objective is served and exactly whose??

Originally Posted by tarek

Leader

"To expect Israel to do nothing when attack is illogical"

Fair enuff, but you may be engaging in a straw man argument, after all, who has suggested that Israel do nothing?

What ofcourse does matter is the substance of the response - if the substance of the response is to suggest that the just elected President respond to a terrorist attack on the terms Israel demands or else, is to give aid and comfort to the exaqct aim the terrorist have - namely to demonstrate that the President even though elected by Palestinians remains a creature of the Israeli.

The terrorist attack is in reality an attack on the President, it is an atytempt to secure limits of operations for the terrorists - what the Israeli continue to do is ensure that the Palestinian president is limited to only that or those policies the Israel want pursued - once agin, painting the president as a Israeli creature and if he is not to be limited by the Isralei, then the Israeli will claim that they have no partner - it's a no win for the new Palestinian president. Exactly what objective is served and exactly whose??

What Israel wants is an end to terror. I see little reason for them to accommodate the Palestinians at all until they stop supporting terrorism. Abbas has a chance to lead. He can, or the Palestinians can spend another 50 years being miserable because their leadership is incompetent.

Leader,

How do you like Lull?

Does he not appear to be a Islamist creature?

In actual fact, he may not be. I wouldn't know for sure though.

It is all about Perceptions.

Read up what makes one a Leader. Surely, not appearing to be a stooge from Day 1.

Therefore, the Palestinian bossman cannot from Day 1 show he is a stooge.

Originally Posted by Ray

Leader,

How do you like Lull?

Does he not appear to be a Islamist creature?

In actual fact, he may not be. I wouldn't know for sure though.

It is all about Perceptions.

I'm not to clear what you’re talking about, but it's not the first time. If you could be a little clearer, I'd be happy to respond to your point.

If you just want to know what I think of Lull. I think he’s crazy. I don’t hate the guy. He’s funny sometimes.

Read up what makes one a Leader.

Don't assume things you couldn't possibly know. For example, what I have and have not read.

Surely, not appearing to be a stooge from Day 1.

Therefore, the Palestinian bossman cannot from Day 1 show he is a stooge.

Be a stooge or let your people continue to suffer and die.

Le

"What Israel wants is an end to terror. I see little reason for them to accommodate the Palestinians at all until they stop supporting terrorism. Abbas has a chance to lead. He can, or the Palestinians can spend another 50 years being miserable because their leadership is incompetentarder"

Yaara, when have we suggested thjat we waqnt terror or Abbas said that he wants terror? Why are engaging me in straw man arguments? What evidence have you based the premise that I am open to such arguments??

Can Abbas lead? Obviously, he just won an election on the basis that that he can do exactly that -- Now, look at the Israeli reaction to the Terrorist test of Abbas, instead of offering a statement that they trust Abbas's vision and that they trust the PA to bring an end ot terrorism that not only brings tragedy to Israel but continues the tragedy of the Palestinian, that the terrorists are in effect the enemies of both Israeli and the Palestinian, that the interests of the Palestinian and Israeli are far more insimilar than dissimilar, the reaction of the Israeli govt has effectively isolated the new Palestinian president - in effect, it's like kicking the guy in the stomach and saying, see, it's a test of his stomach muscles to repel the blow.

Gentle leader, Israeli are advised to pay attention to limits the American learning, it is the duty of friends to not aggravate the problems of their friends, lest they give cuase to suggestion that with friends such as these , who needs enemies.

Leader,

I will not comment on your last post.

when have we suggested thjat we waqnt terror or Abbas said that he wants terror? Why are engaging me in straw man arguments? What evidence have you based the premise that I am open to such arguments??

Tarek,

It is the unfortunate part is that if one has a divergent view, it is automatically assumed that one is a cheerleader for terrorism. At least, I have no reason to be so. I am not an aggrieved co religionist nor am I a cheerleader of fundamentalists. In fact, I have faced the wrong end of terrorism myself personally repeatedly, unlike some who have faced it through the newspaper headlines and TV bulletins to become experts on the subject .

It is no leadership to pounce on a person even before he has had the opprtunity to warm the august chair and that too when he is taking charge of an anarchy in the name of Palestinian liberation!

In Leadership, one must first watch and wait before passing judgement and taking action. I do hope Sharon rises to it.

Originally Posted by Ray

Leader,

I will not comment on your last post.

That's ok.

Originally Posted by tarek

Yaara, when have we suggested thjat we waqnt terror or Abbas said that he wants terror? Why are engaging me in straw man arguments? What evidence have you based the premise that I am open to such arguments??

Originally Posted by tarek

Palestinian president is limited to only that or those policies the Israel want pursued

Just so we are clear.

Originally Posted by leader

What Israel wants is an end to terror.

It's not a straw man.

Now, look at the Israeli reaction to the Terrorist test of Abbas, instead of offering a statement that they trust Abbas's vision and that they trust the PA to bring an end ot terrorism

Why should they trust Abbas will end violence?

Originally Posted by Fatah Party Platform

Article (12) Complete liberation of Palestine, and eradication of Zionist economic, political, military and cultural existence.

...

Article (19) Armed struggle is a strategy and not a tactic, and the Palestinian Arab People’s armed revolution is a decisive factor in the liberation fight and in uprooting the Zionist existence, and this struggle will not cease unless the Zionist state is demolished and Palestine is completely liberated.

source

From the AP:

Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas said Saturday that he wants to shield Palestinian militants from Israel and indicated he has no plans to crack down on gunmen after upcoming presidential elections.

source

that not only brings tragedy to Israel but continues the tragedy of the Palestinian, that the terrorists are in effect the enemies of both Israeli and the Palestinian, that the interests of the Palestinian and Israeli are far more insimilar than dissimilar,

You put them to same category. They are not. The Palestinians have both more to lose and are primarily responsible for their situation. Israel has little reason to change, either morally or practically.

the reaction of the Israeli govt has effectively isolated the new Palestinian president

Israel under responded. As I have stated, they usually find some terrorists to kill. This would be far worse for Abbas.

- in effect, it's like kicking the guy in the stomach and saying, see, it's a test of his stomach muscles to repel the blow.

Abbas need to make hard decisions. I don't blame Israel for wanting them now, and not in 20 years.

Great - now Israeli govt has shown the world exactly the kind of support it has to offer the new Palestinian President and the kind of support it offers the Islamists -- Soon we will hear from the this Israeli govt that there may be a partner with whom they may discuss the peace process, though that partner has yet to materialize.

With this Israeli govt as a friend, the US needs no enemies.