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Reply With QuoteSo does this mean outsourcing security is not a good thing?
So is it just setting a warning example for other companies or is Iraqi goverment trying to get rid of them all ?
Blackwater License Being Revoked in Iraq
Monday September 17, 2007 3:01 PM
By BASSEM MROUE
Associated Press Writer
BAGHDAD (AP) - The Iraqi government said Monday that it was revoking the license of an American security firm accused of involvement in the deaths of eight civilians in a firefight that followed a car bomb explosion near a State Department motorcade.
The Interior Ministry said it would prosecute any foreign contractors found to have used excessive force in the Sunday shooting. It was latest accusation against the U.S.-contracted firms that operate with little or no supervision and are widely disliked by Iraqis who resent their speeding motorcades and forceful behavior.
Interior Ministry spokesman Abdul-Karim Khalaf said eight civilians were killed and 13 were wounded when contractors believed to be working for Blackwater USA opened fire in a predominantly Sunni neighborhood of western Baghdad.
``We have canceled the license of Blackwater and prevented them from working all over Iraqi territory. We will also refer those involved to Iraqi judicial authorities,'' Khalaf said.
The spokesman said witness reports pointed to Blackwater involvement but said the shooting was still under investigation. It was not immediately clear if the measure against Blackwater was intended to be temporary or permanent.
Blackwater, based in Moyock, N.C., provides security for many U.S. civilian operations in the country.
Phone messages left early Monday at the company's office in North Carolina and with a spokeswoman were not immediately returned.
The U.S. Embassy said a State Department motorcade came under small-arms fire that disabled one of the vehicles, which had to be towed from the scene near Nisoor Square in the Mansour district.
``There was a convoy of State Department personnel and a car bomb went off in proximity to them and there was an exchange of fire as the personnel were returning to the International Zone,'' embassy spokesman Johann Schmonsees said, referring to the heavily fortified U.S.-protected area in central Baghdad also known as the Green Zone.
Officials provided no information about Iraqi casualties but said no State Department personnel were wounded or killed.
The embassy also refused to answer any questions on Blackwater's status or legal issues, saying it was seeking clarification on the issue as part of the investigation, which was being carried out by the State Department's diplomatic security service and law enforcement officials working with the Iraqi government and the U.S. military.
Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki late Sunday condemned the shooting by a ``foreign security company'' and called it a ``crime.''
The decision to pull the license was likely to face a challenge, as it would be a major blow to a company that was at the forefront of one of the main turning points in the war.
The 2004 battle of Fallujah - an unsuccessful military assault in which an estimated 27 U.S. Marines were killed, along with an unknown number of civilians - was retaliation for the killing, maiming and burning of four Blackwater guards in that city by a mob of insurgents.
Tens of thousands of foreign private security contractors work in Iraq - some with automatic weapons, body armor, helicopters and bulletproof vehicles - to provide protection for Westerners and dignitaries in Iraq as the country has plummeted toward anarchy and civil war.
Monday's action against Blackwater was likely to give the unpopular government a boost, given Iraqis' dislike of the contractors.
Many of the contractors have been accused of indiscriminately firing at American and Iraqi troops, and of shooting to death an unknown number of Iraqi citizens who got too close to their heavily armed convoys, but none has faced charges or prosecution.
``There have been so many innocent people they've killed over there, and they just keep doing it,'' said Katy Helvenston, the mother of late Blackwater contractor Steve Helvenston, who died in 2004 during the ambush in Fallujah. ``They have just a callous disregard for life.''
Helvenston is now part of a lawsuit that accuses Blackwater of cutting corners that ultimately led to the death of her son and three others.
The question of whether they could face prosecution is legally murky. Unlike soldiers, the contrators are not bound by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Under a special provision secured by American-occupying forces, they are exempt from prosecution by Iraqis for crimes committed there.
Khalaf, however, denied that the exemption applied to private security companies.
Iraqi police said the contractors were in a convoy of six sport utility vehicles and left after the shooting.
``We saw a convoy of SUVs passing in the street nearby. One minute later, we heard the sound of a bomb explosion followed by gunfire that lasted for 20 minutes between gunmen and the convoy people who were foreigners and dressed in civilian clothes. Everybody in the street started to flee immediately,'' said Hussein Abdul-Abbas, who owns a mobile phone store in the area.
The wartime numbers of private guards are unprecedented - as are their duties, many of which have traditionally been done by soldiers. They protect U.S. military operations and diplomats and have guarded high-ranking officials including Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Baghdad.
They also protect journalists, visiting foreign officials and thousands of construction projects.
Blackwater has an estimated 1,000 employees in Iraq, and at least $800 million in government contracts. It is one of the most high-profile security firms in Iraq, with its fleet of ``Little Bird'' helicopters and armed door gunners swarming Baghdad and beyond.
The secretive company, run by a former Navy SEAL, is based at a massive, swampland complex. Until the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks, it had few security contracts.
Since then, Blackwater profits have soared. And it has become the focus of numerous controversies in Iraq, including the May 30 shooting death of an Iraqi deemed to be driving too close to a Blackwater security detail.
In violence Monday, a suicide bomber detonated his explosives-laden car near a busy market in Baghdad, killing three people and wounding 10 in an attack that apparently targeted a police patrol, said a police officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity as he was not authorized to release the information.
Hamid Ghassan, a 20-year-old juice vendor, who described hearing the blast, said he was dismayed that al-Maliki's government is ``sitting safe, making agreements and lying to people while masses ... are being killed.''
---
Associated Press writer Qassim Abdul-Zahra contributed to this report.
Blackwater License Being Revoked in Iraq | World Latest | Guardian Unlimited
If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today
So does this mean outsourcing security is not a good thing?
The statements are worth note:Iraq tells U.S. security firm to get out
ROBERT H. REID
Associated Press
September 17, 2007 at 4:45 PM EDT
BAGHDAD — The Iraqi government Monday ordered Blackwater USA, the security firm that protects U.S. diplomats, to stop work and leave the country after the fatal shooting of eight Iraqi civilians following a car bomb attack against a State Department convoy.
The order by the Interior Ministry, if carried out, would deal a severe blow to U.S. government operations in Iraq by stripping diplomats, engineers, reconstruction officials and others of their security protection.
The presence of so many visible, aggressive Western security contractors has angered many Iraqis, who consider them a mercenary force that runs roughshod over people in their own country.
U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice telephoned Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki late Monday and the two agreed to conduct a “fair and transparent investigation” and hold any wrongdoers accountable, said Yassin Majid, an adviser to the prime minister.
A State Department official confirmed the call but said he could not describe the substance.
But it was clear that the U.S. hoped the Iraqis would be satisfied with an investigation, a finding of responsibility and compensation to the victims' families — and not insist on expelling a company that the Americans cannot operate here without.
Interior Ministry spokesman Abdul-Karim Khalaf said eight civilians were killed and 13 were wounded when contractors believed to be working for Blackwater USA opened fire on civilians Sunday in the predominantly Sunni neighbourhood of Mansour in western Baghdad.
“We have cancelled the license of Blackwater and prevented them from working all over Iraqi territory. We will also refer those involved to Iraqi judicial authorities,” Mr. Khalaf said.
He said witness reports pointed to Blackwater involvement but added that the shooting was still under investigation. One witness, Hussein Abdul-Abbas, said the explosion was followed by about 20 minutes of heavy gunfire and “everybody in the street started to flee immediately.”
U.S. officials said the motorcade was travelling through Nisoor Square on the way back to the Green Zone when the car bomb exploded, followed by volleys of small-arms fire that disabled one of the vehicles but caused no American casualties.
American officials refused to discuss Iraqi casualties, nor would they confirm that Blackwater personnel were involved. They also refused to explain the legal authority under which Blackwater operates in Iraq or say whether the company was complying with the order.
Phone messages left early Monday at Blackwater's office in North Carolina and with a spokeswoman were not immediately returned.
The incident drew attention to one of the controversial American practices of the war — the use of heavily armed private security contractors who Iraqis complain operate beyond the control of U.S. military and Iraqi law.
The events in Mansour also illustrate the challenge of trying to protect U.S. officials in a city where car bombs can explode at any time, and where gunmen blend in with the civilian population.
“The Blackwater guys are not fools. If they were gunning down people, it was because they felt it was the beginning of an ambush,” said Robert Young Pelton, an independent military analyst and author of the book “Licensed to Kill.”
“They're famous for being very aggressive. They use their machine guns like car horns. But it's not the goal to kill people.”
In one of the most horrific attacks of the war, four Blackwater employees were ambushed and killed in Fallujah in 2004 and their charred bodies hung from a bridge over the Euphrates River. According to insurance claims on file at the Department of Labor, 1,001 civilian contractors have been killed in Iraq since the war began in March 2003, through June 30, 2007.
But Iraqis have long complained about high-profile, heavily armed security vehicles careering through the streets, with guards pointing weapons at civilians and sometimes firing warning shots at anyone deemed too close.
Contractors have been accused of shooting to death an unknown number of Iraqi citizens, but none has faced charges or prosecution. In May 2007, a Blackwater employee shot and killed a civilian who was thought to be driving too close to a company security detail.
On Monday, Iraqi officials were quick to condemn the foreign guards.
Mr. Al-Maliki late Sunday condemned the shooting by a “foreign security company” and called it a “crime.”
Interior Minister Jawad al-Bolani described the shooting as “a crime about which we cannot be silent.”
“Everyone should understand that whoever wants good relations with Iraq should respect Iraqis,” Mr. al-Bolani told Al-Arabiya television. “We are implementing the law and abide by laws, and others should respect these laws and respect the sovereignty and independence of Iraqis in their country.”
Defence Minister Abdul-Qadir al-Obaidi told Iraqi television that “those criminals” responsible for deaths “should be punished” and that the government would demand compensation for the victims' families.
Despite threats of prosecution, government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh told Alhurra television that contractors cannot be prosecuted by Iraqi courts because “some of them have immunity.”
State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said the United States had not been notified of any Iraqi government decision to revoke Blackwater's license and declined to speculate as to how that might affect State Department activities if it happened.
“The bottom line is that the secretary wants to make sure that we do everything we possibly can to avoid the loss of innocent life,” Mr. McCormack told reporters in Washington.
In April, the U.S. Defense Department said about 129,000 contractors of many nationalities were operating in Iraq — nearly as many as the entire U.S. military force before this year's troop buildup.
About 4,600 contractors are in combat roles, such as protecting supply convoys along Iraq's dangerous, bomb-laden highways.
Blackwater, a secretive North Carolina-based company run by a former Navy SEAL, is among the biggest and best known security firms, with an estimated 1,000 employees in Iraq and at least $800-million (U.S.) in government contracts.
AP correspondents Deborah Hastings in New York and Matthew Lee in Washington contributed to this report.
globeandmail.com: Iraq tells U.S. security firm to get out
1. “They're (Blackwater) famous for being very aggressive. They use their machine guns like car horns. But it's not the goal to kill people.”
2. The order by the Interior Ministry, if carried out, would deal a severe blow to U.S. government operations in Iraq by stripping diplomats, engineers, reconstruction officials and others of their security protection.
3. The presence of so many visible, aggressive Western security contractors has angered many Iraqis, who consider them a mercenary force that runs roughshod over people in their own country.
4. They also refused to explain the legal authority under which Blackwater operates in Iraq or say whether the company was complying with the order.
5. the use of heavily armed private security contractors who Iraqis complain operate beyond the control of U.S. military and Iraqi law.
6. Contractors have been accused of shooting to death an unknown number of Iraqi citizens, but none has faced charges or prosecution.
7. In May 2007, a Blackwater employee shot and killed a civilian who was thought to be driving too close to a company security detail.
8. Interior Minister Jawad al-Bolani described the shooting as “a crime about which we cannot be silent.”
9. “Everyone should understand that whoever wants good relations with Iraq should respect Iraqis,” Mr. al-Bolani told Al-Arabiya television. “We are implementing the law and abide by laws, and others should respect these laws and respect the sovereignty and independence of Iraqis in their country.”
10. Despite threats of prosecution, government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh told Alhurra television that contractors cannot be prosecuted by Iraqi courts because “some of them have immunity.”
The comments are based on the issues raised in this article and taking it as correct.
Indeed, if there is a feeling that certain foreign civilian armed personnel are being law and can shoot at will and are beyond persecution, there will be resentment. And with such a resentment, anything will be believed by the Iraqis, be it true or manufactured. This in turn will lead to further resentment. This is more so since they have had a bad experience of Saddam's police, who too were extra constitutional and beyond persecution. The comparison will surely inflame them, more so, now that they are told that they are free and with a democratic setup.
Comments like using machine guns like car horns or shooting people because they are too close, if indeed are true, does indicate an intolerance that is not in lines with the tenets of curbing insurgency and will sure agitate the native population. This will be more so in this century since the highhandedness of the colonial powers which was tolerated in the last century, is absent in this century. This psyche leads to the oft complaints that the the US has 'invaded', when, in actuality, the US 'liberated' wherein foreign civilians being beyond law, to the people, appear incongruous to being an independent sovereign country.
That the Minister has issued such strong sentiments indicate the fragile relation that is developing, which does not bode well.
A fair inquiry should be held and the air cleared.
In case the Iraqi govt reinstate the licence to Blackwater, there will be serious problems.
However, it will not lead to the US withdrawing since serious geostrategic considerations would prevent it so as also leaving the vast oilfields of Iraq to forces inimical to the US.
"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."
I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.
HAKUNA MATATA
Congress jumps on the bandwagon :
US House of Representatives
Committee on Oversight and Government Reform
Monday, September 17, 2007
Chairman Waxman’s Statement on Blackwater USA Controversy
Chairman Henry A. Waxman released the following statement this afternoon following the press accounts that Iraq had revoked the license of U.S. contractor Blackwater:
“The controversy over Blackwater is an unfortunate demonstration of the perils of excessive reliance on private security contractors. The Oversight Committee will be holding hearings to understand what has happened and the extent of the damage to U.S. security interests.”
Link
Iraq to review all security firms
As many as 20,000 private security contractors are working in Iraq
Iraq has said it will review the status of all private security firms operating in the country after a gunfight in Baghdad left eight civilians dead.
The Iraqi government said it wanted to determine whether such contractors were operating in compliance with Iraqi law.
The review comes a day after the Iraqi authorities ordered the US-based firm, Blackwater USA, to suspend all operations and leave Iraq immediately.
Blackwater has said its guards acted in self-defence in Sunday's incident.
But the Iraqi interior ministry has claimed the men fired "randomly at citizens" in a crowded square in the capital, killing innocent bystanders and a policeman.
The Blackwater guards were protecting a convoy carrying officials from the US state department at the time.
Unclear status
The Iraqi government's spokesman, Ali al-Dabbagh, said its decision to review the status of Private Security Companies (PSCs) was prompted by the "flagrant assault... on Iraqi citizens" on Sunday.
BLACKWATER USA FACTS
Founded in 1997 by a former US Navy SEAL
Headquarters in North Carolina
One of at least 28 Private Security Companies in Iraq
Employs 744 US citizens, 231 third-country nationals, and 12 Iraqis to protect US state department in Iraq (May 2007)
Provided protection for former CPA head Paul Bremer
Four employees killed by mob in Falluja in March 2004
Personnel have no combat immunity under international law if they engage in hostilities
Profile: Blackwater USA
"Companies should respect Iraqi laws and the dignity of the citizens," he added.
The BBC's Hugh Sykes in Baghdad says the status of the thousands of often heavily armed private security guards employed in Iraq is unclear.
The guards are considered neither civilians nor military personnel, although they do carry IDs from the US Department of Defense.
Order 17 of the Coalition Provisional Authority gives the guards immunity from Iraqi prosecution, but they have no combat immunity under international law if they engage in hostilities.
Any Iraqi review of their status would therefore only have an effect if the US authorities accept its conclusions, our correspondent says.
'Fair probe'
Earlier, the US Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, telephoned Prime Minister Nouri Maliki to express her regret over the deaths and pledge to help carry out a "fair and transparent" investigation into the incident.
A spokesman for Ms Rice told the AFP news agency that she had "reiterated that the United States does everything it can to avoid such loss of life in contrast to the enemies of the Iraqi people who deliberately target civilians".
The two agreed to hold any wrongdoers accountable, according to Mr Maliki's spokesman.
Blackwater is one of the biggest private security contractors in Iraq and is reported to have a contract worth $300m (£150m) with the state department to protect its diplomatic staff and equipment there.
Last week, the US ambassador to Iraq, Ryan Crocker, spoke of the importance of private security contractors in Iraq and correspondents say their suspension would be a potentially serious blow to the state department's work there.
BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Iraq to review all security firms
Gung ho-ism ruins whatever little that is being achieved.
Bush does not require any foreign enemies to screw his plans.
Everyone seems to be working to make the Iraq Solution a failure.
"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."
I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.
HAKUNA MATATA
Welcome to America?Originally Posted by Ray
Wounded Iraqis: 'No one did anything' to provoke Blackwater - CNN.com
t was last Sunday in western Baghdad. Helicopters circled overhead while armed guards, privately hired by the U.S. government, were conducting an ordinary mission to protect U.S. State Department employees.
art.salman.jpg
Hasan Jaber Salman, wounded in the incident, says of Blackwater contractors: "No one fired on them."
But within minutes there was an explosion, a hail of gunfire, and bodies in the streets.
The Iraqi Interior Ministry says at least 10 Iraqis were killed and 10 wounded. Another government spokesman, Ali al-Dabbagh, told CNN that at least 20 people died, with 35 wounded.
So what happened on that day on a square in the Mansour district of Baghdad?
It depends on whom you ask.
Blackwater USA, the private security firm at the center of the controversy, says its employees simply defended themselves against armed attackers.
Two men hospitalized with gunshot wounds disagree. They say the guards fired on people for no reason.
Hasan Jaber Salman lies in Yarmouk Hospital, bandages covering gunshot wounds in his back.
Salman says he is a lawyer who was headed from a courthouse to the Ministry of Justice when he found his route blocked by four armored Blackwater SUVs.
Don't Miss
* Iraqi PM urges U.S. to fire Blackwater
* U.S. suspends civilian travel in Iraq
* Blackwater statement: Employees 'acted lawfully'
The roadblock soon caused a traffic snarl, so armed Blackwater guards began waving at the drivers, telling them to turn around and leave the area.
"So we turned back, and as we turned back they opened fire at all cars from behind," Salman said. "All my injuries, the bullets are in my back.
"Within two minutes the security force arrived in planes -- part of the security company Blackwater. They started firing randomly at all citizens."
Blackwater, in a statement issued after the incident, denied that gunfire came from aircraft. "The helicopters providing aerial support never fired weapons," it said.
The firm also said its employees "acted lawfully and appropriately in response to a hostile attack."
But Salman claims the attack was unprovoked.
"No one fired at them, they were not attacked by gunmen, they were not targeted by an explosion," he said. Video Watch the survivors describe what happened »
The firing continued until Salman's car crashed into a police checkpoint and flipped over, he said, adding that eight bullets struck his car and four struck him.
"My left shoulder is broken ... and my arm is broken. I had a surgery. ... They opened up my stomach," he said. "I swear to God no one did anything to them at all."
The lawyer said he intends to sue Blackwater, which he already did in 2005 after his son was involved in a similar incident outside al-Muthana Air Base near Baghdad's international airport. That lawsuit has not yet been resolved, he said.
Laborer Abul-Raheem Amir said he was on his way to a job when the minibus he was in got caught in a traffic jam caused by an explosion.
"A security company called Blackwater, they got out and kept on firing randomly at people, starting with the people walking or working the street -- even the traffic policeman, even the people who work in the area," Amir said.
"People at first thought we were safe in the minibus, but when they realized they were not, they started getting out and went to other places to save themselves," he recounted. "Unfortunately that did not work. As they got out, people were shot and killed."
He said he tried to make a run for it after the driver and two women next to him on the minibus were shot.
"I ran about 50 meters [about 55 yards] and then was shot, the first bullet. Still I kept running, but the second bullet dropped me to the ground. ... It broke my bones, and the third one made me start crawling."
Some people helped get him off the street and away from the carnage. The shooting lasted for about a half-hour, and there were some 30 bodies in the street, he said.
"I remember people strewn on the streets, children, elderly, young men, elderly women. ... The street turned into the street of the dead, a graveyard," he said.
"There was nothing I could do. Every man was for himself."
Amir wonders what the Blackwater employees were thinking.
advertisement
"Is this some kind of a show of force for them to flex their muscles?" he said. "Are they doing this to us, the victims, so they can advertise and promote their abilities through the Western media? ... Is their mission to protect one person by killing 10 unarmed people? And if they are protecting two people, then they shoot 100 unarmed people. ... Is this Vietnam? ...
"Enough, enough," he said. "Enough of all that's happening. God's fury is coming. Enough of this. Enough."
============================
fruckin mercenaries..GTFO
Back in bidness:
US Resumes Blackwater Convoys in Iraq
Sep 21, 9:08 AM (ET)
By KATARINA KRATOVAC
BAGHDAD (AP) - American convoys under the protection of Blackwater USA resumed on Friday, four days after the U.S. Embassy suspended all land travel by its diplomats and other civilian officials in response to the alleged killing of civilians by the security firm.
A top aide to Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki had earlier conceded it may prove difficult for the Iraqi government to follow through on threats to expel Blackwater and other Western security contractors.
The aide, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation into Sunday's shooting was ongoing, said a way out of the Blackwater crisis could be the payment of compensation to victims' families and an agreement from all sides on a new set of rules for their operations in Iraq.
U.S. Embassy spokeswoman Mirembe Nantongo said the decision to resume land travel outside the heavily fortified Green Zone was made after consultations with the Iraqi governments. She said the convoys will be limited to essential missions.
Nantongo declined to comment on an Interior Ministry report that officials said concluded that Blackwater guards opened fire Sunday from four positions on a square in western Baghdad after a vehicle near their convoy failed to stop.
"We're waiting for the results of the investigation, which we are conducting as quickly as we can," she said.
The U.S. ban announced Tuesday had confined most American officials to the Green Zone, a 3 1/2-square-mile area in the center of the city that houses the American Embassy and thousands of U.S. soldiers and contractors.
The decision kept them from visiting U.S.-funded construction sites or Iraqi officials elsewhere in the country except by helicopter - an indication of how dependent the State Department is on Blackwater protection.
Blackwater has said its employees acted "lawfully and appropriately" in response to an armed attack against a State Department convoy. Several Iraqi witnesses and officials claimed the security guards were the first to open fire.
U.S. and Iraqi officials have formed a joint committee to probe the widely differing accounts.
Interior Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Abdul-Karim Khalaf said a report found that the security guards opened fire first on Iraqi drivers.
The report, Khalaf said, recommended annulling a legal provision that gives immunity to foreign security companies operating in Iraq. It also recommended Blackwater compensate the victims' families and that all foreign security companies be replaced by Iraqi companies.
According to Khalaf, a car bomb detonated around noon Sunday near al-Rahman mosque in Mansour, a mile north of Nisoor Square. "Minutes later, two mortar rounds landed nearby Nisoor Square and they (Blackwater) thought that they were under attack," Khalaf said.
"They started shooting randomly from four positions in the square, killing 11 civilians and injuring 12 others. The first one who was killed was a driver who failed to stop and then his wife," Khalaf said.
Meanwhile, followers of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani refused to attend Friday sermons in their mosques in the southern city of Basra, in protest of the overnight assassination of two aides to the country's top Shiite cleric - one in Diwaniyah province and the other in in the southern Basra area.
The deaths bring to at least five the number of al-Sistani aides slain since early August but it remains unclear if the killings reflect internal Shiite disputes or are the work of Sunni insurgents opposed to the vast influence enjoyed by al-Sistani over Iraq's Shiites and politics since Saddam Hussein's 2003 ouster.
Al-Sistani's office in the holy city of Najaf declined to comment on the latest slayings. Basra Gov. Mohammed al-Waili called on the government to step up measures to protect clerics.
The reclusive cleric, who is in his 70s and commands the deep respect of Iraq's majority Shiites, has been the target of at least one assassination attempt since 2003.
In Baghdad, the U.S. military said Friday an American soldier was killed in an explosion Thursday in the volatile Diyala province north of the Iraqi capital. Another U.S. soldier died in a non-combat related incident in Tamim province Thursday.
Also Friday, a roadside bomb killed a Romanian soldier near Tallil in southern Iraq, the Romanian defense ministry said.
Separately, authorities in the autonomous Kurdish region in northern Iraq called for the release of an Iranian detained by U.S. forces Thursday in Sulaimaniyah.
The U.S. military said he was smuggling in roadside bombs as a member of the elite Iranian paramilitary Quds Force, which is accused by the United States of arming and training Shiite militias in Iraq.
A Kurdish government stement said the man was part of an Iranian delegation of economists and businessmen, with an "official invitation." A spokesman, Fuad Hussein, said the detention was "illegitimate."
The U.S. detentions of Iranians - including five grabbed during a U.S. raid in the northern city of Irbil - is a sensitive subject for Iraqi officials trying to balance the interests of their rival U.S. backers and Iran, powerful allies of the Shiite-led government.
---
Associated Press writers Sinan Salaheddin and Hamid Ahmed contributed to this report.
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell
Holy moly.
A top aide to Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki had earlier conceded it may prove difficult for the Iraqi government to follow through on threats to expel Blackwater and other Western security contractors.
OK Blues, here is the question I have to ask.
If the Iraqi goverment has already booted these guys out, why are they back on the streets?
Is the Govt of Iraq nothing more than a "puppet on a string" for us?
Is that why the common Iraqi feels they are being "occupied"?
Is that why the insurgency won't die?
questions...
My nephew Theo just returned from Iraq. He despises the contractors. While he had to maintain and enforce rules of engagement ( as an senior NCO), these 'effin loose cannons had no accountability.
What little ground our REAL military gained in the "hearts and minds" battle these bubbas undid in no time.
They were paid 3 times what our own GIs were paid.
Are they part of the problem?
If so, are they not a liability in our quest for victory?
Okay, one at a time...
They weren't tossed out of the country; their licence to operate was pulled temporarily. If the licence ever gets pulled FO' REAL, they'd leave in a jiffy.OK Blues, here is the question I have to ask.
If the Iraqi goverment has already booted these guys out, why are they back on the streets?
DEFINITELY NOT. Sometimes, they're intractable and about as easy to deal with as a cornered rat. They express their sovereignty in big ways and small, and they're so touchy about charges just like yours that sometimes they'll go to extremes to prove they're NOT mere puppets, or make decisions that go against their best interest, just to show who's the boss.Is the Govt of Iraq nothing more than a "puppet on a string" for us?
I think you'll find that sentiment declining these days, and the idea that the Americans and allies REALLY ARE there to help is finally taking hold.Is that why the common Iraqi feels they are being "occupied"?
The insurgency won't die (yet) for one very simple reason that seems to escape the Democrats: aQ sees this as the central front in the war, and they mean to hang on. The insurgency would've already collapsed but for the hope that keeps getting extended to them through the certain knowledge that aQ is one successful bug-out vote by the American Congress away from victory. They keep hanging on because they know that it will be the worldwide jihad's greatest victory that will fuel the fire on their own side all over the world, and crush the morale of our side. So...they hang on another day, hoping Pelosi and Reid can deliver the victory that they can't win on the battlefield. They're desperately hoping that one day, that vote will come...and they'll win.Is that why the insurgency won't die?
Tell him from THIS contractor that he has our best wishes and unqualified support, no matter how he may feel about US.questions...
My nephew Theo just returned from Iraq.
Odd sentiment to have for those that feed and house and protect him, deliver his beans, brass, bandages and C4I. I suppose I could understand 'envy', due to the pay, but 'despise'? Seems kind of, I don't know, IGNORANT to me.He despises the contractors.
He may have fallen into believing the hype that seems to be the commonly-believed but untrue knock on contractors. That is, the notion that contractors, because they have DIFFERENT rules, and MUST, it seems they have NO rules, and that's simply not true. ALL of my colleagues from my company have been to Iraq or Afghanistan (or BOTH), and I'm here to tell you categorically that we dam' sure DO have rules, and they are as stringent as the military's but different in specifics, as they must be to accomodate civvies that are not under military law.While he had to maintain and enforce rules of engagement ( as an senior NCO), these 'effin loose cannons had no accountability.
Tell him there's accountability, but not through courts-martial, nor a commander's authority.
I look at it another way: just as there have been military criminals that have set back our cause in big ways and small, there have been instances (but not wholesale misconduct) of contractor personnel that have not done a good job, or have acted criminally. NEITHER the GI nor the contractor is free of human error or vice, and before your self-righteous nephew starts pointing out all the sins of the contractors, I'd like for him to think about all the uniformed mistakes, criminal acts, poor methods and short-sightedness that has hurt the effort, too. Nobody's blameless, but both the uniformed military and the civilians that make possible everything the military has done RIGHT are doing an absolutely excellent job in incredibly difficult and dangerous conditions, and they do it side-by-side with each other. Never forget that: they need each other.What little ground our REAL military gained in the "hearts and minds" battle these bubbas undid in no time.
Correct, and for the most part, they're worth it, too. But here's WHY your nephew doesn't much like the people that are sharing the dangers with him in order to see to it that he can do his job properly: ENVY. He sees them getting LOTS more money than he gets, and he doesn't see the other side of it. They have zero job security; they are at disadvantages as far as status goes; and for the most part, they've paid their dues already, and they are the best, the most experienced, the most valuable force-multipliers the Pentagon can rent. OF COURSE they're paid for their skills the premiums that are the only incentive to go to a place that's that dangerous and that offers them nothing BUT money. Their families can't come (just like the GIs they serve and support), conditions are appalling (for EVERYbody), and without 'em...the war effort closes down.They were paid 3 times what our own GIs were paid.
Sometimes, admittedly, they ARE. FAR, FAR more often, they're part of the solution. Same with GIs. Same with diplomats; same with politicians.Are they part of the problem?
No. Just the opposite.If so, are they not a liability in our quest for victory?
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell
If the GOI told Eric Prince to go stuff himself, and get the hell out, absolutely nothing would change. The same men, with different T-shirts, this time saying "DynCorp", or "Triple Canopy", would be on the same jobs that same afternoon. The Coalition simply dosen't have the manpower to staff every single PSD, and the IA simply lacks the germaine skill-sets. Incidently, we have tried using American military personnel to staff PSDs and the results were not especially encouraging. After Hamid Karzai's return to Afdirtastan the U.S. sent a DEVGRU detatchment to guard him. They were yanked after a relatively short time, sent back up into to mountains to kill Joey Jihadi, and replaced by a PMC.
It is interesting that CPA Article 17(?) is still on the books, two years after the return of sovreignty to the GOI. I believe that the latest incident involving Blackwater is its death knell. At some point PMCs will be operating under a SOFA, whenever that (and a competant Iraqi judiciary) gets cobbled together. Also of note, not one member of a PMC operating in Iraq has been prosecuted for a slew of alleged crimes that would land American service personnell in Portsmouth or Leavenworth for eternity. I'm thinking specifically of the incident where a BW operator got drunk, shot and killed one of the Iraqi VP's bodyguards while in the Green Zone. This may or may not be exemplary of PMCs in general, but seems indicative (among other incidents) of an undue aggressiveness by BW. Such is the war we are in, and these guys aren't going anywhere.
cato
It seems to me that the Iraqi government is flexing it's muscles and attempting to exercise it's authority. They really can't tell the US Army what to do but they can (maybe) tell Blackwater what to do. It's a test to see how far they can go. It also may be an expression of their dissatisfaction with who's in control of the country at the moment and an indication of what the future holds.
Reddite igitur quae sunt Caesaris Caesari et quae sunt Dei Deo
(Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's and unto God the things which are God's)
Americans who feel that their people are dying for an ungrateful Iraqi govt will not understand how it is to be to have a foreign country dictating terms, even if what the foreign country feels is good for the govt being 'helped'.
It is obvious that the US is helping Iraq for the needs of the US first and then the Iraqis. To believe otherwise is balderdash!
No country will tolerate trigger happy mercenaries working for a foreign govt to go killing its citizens and not be accountable for the killings!
There is just one James Bond with his Licence to Kill and he does not step out of the realm of fiction!
"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."
I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.
HAKUNA MATATA
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