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Reply With QuoteWere we to have this discussion in person someone's feelings would get hurt Lull.
Originally Posted by M21Sniper
Actually I can lay claim ( merely knowing ) to my neigbours illegal alien "pollock" son who was promptly forgotten by his dad, quickly after the funeral.........
Hey comeon now! Why blame me for lack of compassion?? Bush Boy also cries Croc-O-Dile tears, every chance he gets on TV, and does a God-damn great job!!
Do you honestly think he cares about some bumchum "Oakie" from the "Skokie"???
I think not!
Were we to have this discussion in person someone's feelings would get hurt Lull.
Why do you hate your political opponents?Do you honestly think he cares about some bumchum "Oakie" from the "Skokie"???
I think not!
"Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have."
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"
NEVER FORGET
umm...contradiction.
"Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have."
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"
NEVER FORGET
Might be more then feelings.
"Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have."
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"
NEVER FORGET
But coming ack to the topic........While we all sit around and pump cheez, our country's goin to hell in a hand basket, and Dubbya's lying thru his teeth, embroiled in war he can't win, and the poor pay the price!
half a trillion in debt! the worst trade deficit in decades! Dolar losing value, poverty at 15% of the U.S. population! International prestige dampened with this war iniraq!
I mean where do we draw the line????
Anyway don't feel bad dude! I just regurgitated ( total verbal diarhhea) what my john bircher president told us last night at the activists forum!
I know I am just kiddin!
Alright dude I'll quit! :
You gotme there! As if I give a flyin ****
Got carried away with my old friend "Stoli"!
Hey I post all these God-damn threads not for you guys, but for my Smillin buddy/ Confed and Donnie, and none of them responds anymore!
Damnit Where the hell are they?
its not fun anymore!
You could only believe the things you do about conservatives if you hated them.
Sure and if you in Boston we'll do the same.....Lets go out some time for a cheap drink......if you happen to stroll about in chicago.....
Do you think you're more qualified then the people on the ground in Iraq in determining if we can win? Because, the vast majority thinks we can and will.But coming ack to the topic........While we all sit around and pump cheez, our country's goin to hell in a hand basket, and Dubbya's lying thru his teeth, embroiled in war he can't win, and the poor pay the price!
half a trillion in debt! the worst trade deficit in decades! Dolar losing value, poverty at 15% of the U.S. population! International prestige dampened with this war iniraq!
I mean where do we draw the line????
"Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have."
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"
NEVER FORGET
We are still here, the record is broken, sorry to disapoint you (not really).Alright dude I'll quit! :
You gotme there! As if I give a flyin ****
Got carried away with my old friend "Stoli"!
Hey I post all these God-damn threads not for you guys, but for my Smillin buddy/ Confed and Donnie, and none of them responds anymore!
Damnit Where the hell are they?
its not fun anymore!
You defending your post with poll numbers shows me everything I need to know about your possition, its ill informed.
Last edited by smilingassassin; 04 Dec 04, at 08:19.
Reality check? The innocent were allready being killed there.
No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry
Okay this is from yesterday! The death Toll!
Suicide bombings leave 24 dead in Iraq
BAGHDAD, Dec 4: A double suicide car bomb attack claimed 24 lives on Saturday. In the first attack a police station just outside Baghdad's fortified Green Zone was devastated, killing seven people and wounding 57 in the latest strike against Iraq's beleaguered security forces.
Another suicide car bomber destroyed a bus carrying Kurdish militiamen in Mosul, killing 17, and guerillas armed with rocket-propelled grenades also fought street battles with US troops in the northern city for a second day.
Police sources said the Baghdad attack, which shook the city centre early in the morning, also destroyed 35 vehicles, including 17 police cars. It was not clear how many of those killed were policemen.
A thick column of black smoke rose from the site of the blasts, near a main entrance to the Green Zone, home to the interim Iraqi government and several foreign embassies.
The heavy thud of machinegun fire could be heard immediately after the explosions as Iraqi police returned fire.
"I was in the criminal investigation department and saw our guards open the gates for a police patrol," policeman Rafid Khudeir said from his hospital bed, his head swathed in blood- stained bandages. "Then a white car followed them in and blew up outside our building."
One blast was so powerful it blew a car onto the roof of an annexe next to the police station.
The area around the site of the attack, which includes an entrance to the protected Green Zone often used by foreigners and the media, was quickly sealed off by US and Iraqi forces.
Guerillas have repeatedly attacked Iraqi police and police stations in recent days, part of a months-long campaign to destroy the confidence of the fledgling security force.
2 US SOLDIERS KILLED: One US soldier was killed and one wounded on Saturday when a roadside bomb hit their convoy near Baquba, northeast of Baghdad, the army said.
Another soldier was killed and five wounded by a roadside bomb blast in Baghdad. Roadside bombs have killed about 30 percent of the US troops to have died in Iraq.
On the Iraq-Jordan border, the military said two soldiers with the multinational force were killed and five wounded in a car bomb attack on Friday.
The attacks raised to at least 991 the number of US troops killed since the invasion was launched last year.
MOSUL ATTACK: Seventeen militiamen from the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) were killed on Saturday when a suicide car bomber rammed their convoy in Mosul.
"Seventeen peshmergas (volunteers) were killed and 40 more wounded when their convoy was attacked by a car bomb driven by a suicide bomber as they were travelling through the Karama neighbourhood of Mosul," the PUK's chief there, Saad Pira, said.
Mr Pira said the convoy consisted of four minibuses bringing 80 peshmergas to the Arab-majority city of Mosul to replace comrades based there.
"The attack occurred near the PUK headquarters in the Karama neighbourhood," he said. "An Opel car slammed into the convoy and exploded against the minibuses, two of which were totally gutted by fire."
The Arab inhabitants of Mosul are hostile to the Kurdish presence in their city, 375 kilometres north of Baghdad. After the fall of president Saddam Hussein, Kurdish political parties set up offices there, guarded by peshmergas.
Earlier in the morning, explosions rocked parts of the city as guerillas clashed with US forces. Washington says its top foe in Iraq, Al Qaeda ally Abu Mussab al Zarqawi, may have fled to the city after the offensive in Fallujah last month.-Reuters/AFP
And this is todays death toll:
Insurgents Kill 21 Iraqis North of Baghdad: BAGHDAD, Nov 05: Guerrillas shot dead 17 Iraqis working for the U.S. Army and killed a National Guard commander and three bodyguards in attacks north of Baghdad today that took the toll from three days of violence to more than 70. The U.S. 1st Infantry Division said gunmen in two cars opened fire on two civilian buses carrying Iraqis to work at an arms dump outside Saddam Hussein's home town of Tikrit today. As well as the 17 killed, 13 Iraqis were wounded. A suicide car bomber detonated his vehicle beside a National Guard convoy in the rebel stronghold of Baiji, north of Tikrit, killing local National Guard commander Mohammed Jassim Rumaied and three of his bodyguards, colleagues said. (Reuters) (Posted @ 16:40 PST)
Separater
And yu boys claim that it aint like vietnam????
Comeon now, lets be realistic please.............
It's exactly the same, if you don't know anything about Vietnam or Iraq...
No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry
I'll go ahead and weigh in on this issue--with my disagreement being a source of heartburn for my fellow conservatives on other posting boards.
Like it or not, there are some similarities between Iraq and Vietnam. We are dealing with enemy soldiers who are hiding among the civilian populace and using guerilla warfare tactics against American forces--boobytraps and snipers. That is the essence of the combat going on there right now and was a significant portion of the fighting in Vietnam. In Vietnam we had to deal with a green jungle; in Iraq it is an urban jungle that is our headache.
I think the hesitance by many on the right to acknowledge what is readily apparent to so many others is the result of a concern for this not to be compared to Vietnam in any context.
Both Vietnam and Iraq are examples of the perils of fighting limited wars. As I stated on another thread, we've gone into Iraq with the mindset that you can win wars by dividing up the populace into the good guys and the bad guys. That may be okay for winning individual battles, but it is a very poor way to win a war. War is about wholesale death and destruction being visited upon your enemies--pummeling them until they collectively beg for mercy by raising the white flag of surrender.
And that is what we should have done in Iraq.
I don't make that last statement with any bloodlust in my heart or mind. I merely state it matter-of-factly. Saddam and his infrastructure of sadists and butchers may or may not have been a direct threat to the United States at this juncture. Yet it is undeniable that they were a threat to his neighbors. Two unprovoked wars (Kuwait and Iran) with horrific casualties is proof of that. As such, a reasonable case can be made for removing Saddam. But that is more of a political goal than it is a military one. And, as was the case in Vietnam, political goals have replaced purely military ones. And that gets our soldiers killed. I don't care about Iraqi elderly, children, or babies--not while our soldiers are dying.
You draw fire from an apartment complex--you immediately level it (without an evacuation notice). You draw fire from a mosque--you immediately turn it to dust. You locate a neighborhood that is a stronghold for your enemies--you turn it to rubble. You have a city that is a haven to enemy soldiers--then you turn it into a smoking hole in the ground.
Yes, it sounds barbaric. But that's war.
We've gotten far too 'evolved' to employ war in that manner. And that's unfortunate. We hand out chocolate bars and train policemen. We worry about the perceptions of those whose sole motivation is to see us fail. We try to make partners out of those we should only concern ourselves with conquering--the Vietnamese were miserable partners, as are the Iraqis. And that is why I believe, ultimately, that we will fail in Iraq. Freedom is something you have to want bad. You have to be willing to spill people's blood to get it (standing around and allowing yourself to be tortured doesn't count). And the Iraqis are simply failures with that respect. We do the fighting and dying while they whine because we scratched one of their mosques. Oh please!!! And we actually think these people are going to sacrifice to defend democracy after we leave? C'mon. Americans can't be that naive.
War isn't something we need to engage in half-ass. If we're going to utilize the methodology, then we shouldn't betray some of its most essential tenets. That's like removing a bunch of ingredients for a recipe and expecting the final product to not be compromised. War isn't just about beating one enemy. It's also about putting any other potential enemies on notice that we will do whatever it takes to defeat them.
Last edited by Lucien LaCroix; 05 Dec 04, at 19:43.
"If I see further than other men, it is because I stand upon the shoulders of giants."
--Sir Isaac Newton
It is rather short sighted. The resultant refugee problem would be bigger than the insurgency itself.
Chimo
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