Thread: 15 UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Originally Posted by gunnut

That was my initial response. Why Brits rather than Yanks?

This has already probably been answered, but my guess is because the Brits own Basra and Umm Qasr, and so it's their AO.

Originally Posted by Somaton

Bluesman,
You might be a military professional, and even a defense professional (?), but you are clearly not a conflict professional.

Originally Posted by Bluesman

Or are you talking out your ass, you jumped-up arrogant know-it-all lay-strategist with a 1:300,00-scale globe and a whoooole bunch of books on geo-politics and strategy that you've no doubt read cover-to-cover (TWICE!), whilst pursuing that college degree in international relations from the advanced program at Fred's Collidge of Smart-Guy Stuff and Bait Shop?

Alright, do you two know each other or something?

Originally Posted by TopHatter

Alright, do you two know each other or something?

He was the same smug tosser on the board we're both refugees from, and he hasn't improved one bit by being here.

Newest developments: Iran ‘to try Britons for espionage’-News-World-Middle East-TimesOnline Now they're going to try them!

By the way, I said we don’t need troops to turn Iran into a parking lot: my point was that the Iranian president should remember that; I didn’t say we should actually nuke Iran. I think we should hit numerous military targets (particularly naval), and perform a rescue operation NOT similar to the former debacle led by Jimmy Carter. Of course, Britain should lead this, but with full American support.

The Peninsula On-line: Qatar's leading English Daily

Fishermen say that Britons taken in Iraqi waters.

Guys this could get bad, I don't Iran understands that the US will go to war to get those Britons back. Iran can't win this one and I hope they understand that sooner rather too late-er.

This has handed Bush his jus ad bellum on a platter.

Originally Posted by xerxes

^^^

First you called me a "stupid person", now you are calling me "pile of excrement". Though, I would never bother respond such people, I will respond to you one last time, only because I think you are misunderstanding me, rather just showing your true American colors.

There is something here that you dont get. The way I see it, because in this forum I support everything that Iran does, in your great black-and-white logic, I must be pro-Islamic regime. You have absolutly no idea who I am and what I do and what are my actual political views. Dont assume anything. I never liked the regime in Iran, hated their crimes, hated the fact how they manage to throw away their best assets (children) by making the nation unbearable for them. My familly never had ties to any of the two regimes, but we damn well came to Canada for a reason: The corruption and the brutallity of the current regime. However, that doesnt mean that I will kiss United States ass in their plans to put a regime change in Iran or their military strikes. I am an Iranian, it is my duty to protect Iran the best way I can. The current regime in Iran, that is an inside-Iranian problem not yours. So **** off.

I hate attitudes like this in my homeland. It's people like you with an attitude like this that makes people against immigration. You left for a reason as you say so leave it behind or go straight back where you came from.

It really pisses me off to see this and reminds me when of when Serbs and Croats go at eachother with bats in Canadian streets.

Welcome to Canada but ffs leave your garbage where you came from.

At Xerxes,

I would have probably answered you, if your post were less insulting in the last part. Though, feel free to always use the words “detain”, when the West does it, and use the word “kidnap” when Iran does it.

You still haven't answered my question. Since the revolution, when has the US 'kidnapped' Iranian's on Iranian soil? The Iranian government has quite a track record in kidnappings I must say. I think you realize that the Iranian government kidnaps not only it's own people but that of other countries, you just don't want to admit it. Part of the greater reason your family left the country if I'm not mistaken, to leave behind injustice to come to a country that has a real rule of law?

I'm not going to waste my time between the differences of how the west detains someone and how Iran kidnaps people. Bottom line, once again refers back to rule of law.

I will try to tone down my insults and be more professional next time. I understand the feel to protect your country of origin. Most people have a sense of Nationalism. But you contradict your values when you defend Iran. Iran is ruled by an oppressive regime that the people don't stand up against, therefore they are not but sheeple incapable of self liberation. Therefore that country still remains in the cluthces of the opressor. And if you think differently, why don't you go move back there? Unless you think you can defend Iran's amazing 21st century rule of law and other aspects that make it an near ass backwards country?

Now you do have a amazing point. The US and the west does have allies in that region, Saudia Arabi and Pakistan to name but two, that could use a change in a rule of law and among many other things. I'm disgusted by the way people in those countries are treated and have very limited ability to obtain their individual potential. But the point being why they are allies, is of course, strategic and geo political reasons for the time being. One would be ignorant to deny this. But the thing is, when has Iran since the revolution been cooperative? You wait, Saudia Arabi and other countries will have their moments in the future to change either by their own hand or that of the west. You want to know why? What's going to happen to the middle east when OIL runs out and they have no resources to trade? You want to know why they don't have resources to trade after oil runs out? Because their people are oppressed! Why do you think such nations as Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore and to name many others have succeeded in vast progress recently so quickly when they have very limited natural resources? Because they depend on the potential of their people! Their people have freedom so they can pursue their individual potential. Now who's side are you on? That of the oppressor or that of the freedom you so enjoy yourself? Because if this region, the middle east, continues to slip behind the curve of progress as they have been for so long due to oppressed governments, what do you think is going to happen? Does the west attempt to change this now or does the west wait for that to happen on it's own? If this region continues in the direction it's been heading in, not to mention Africa, more and more individuals are going to look at the rest of the world with the lens of unfairness, bitterness, anger and who is this going to be directed at? The west or their own governments faliure? The west of course for the majority and this is part of the reason terrorism is spawned. Ask yourself this question!

If I go to Iran, or for that matter, other middle eastern nations, I can hear the chant of death to the west, death to America, death to the Jews. Now if you'll please tell me where the **** can I go in America or any other western nation and see a group of inidividauls publicly saying "Death to Iran!", "Death to the Muslims!" I'm sorry but the mentality of most from the middle east is so skewed from reality and the world around them due to lack of education that they have nothing but anger and emotion that guides their actions rather then logic. And please don't tell me I don't know wtf I'm talking about because I've talked to as many middle eastern people as you have western people.

But IMO, there are also many great muslims and people that come from middle eastern countries. They are the ones I'm over here risking my life for to see free. So therefore my children don't have to come back here in the future to fight again another war against the ignorance of the radical mentality so practiced by portions of the Islamic world that seems to have taken hold.

I'm sure Iran will thank Britain for gifting them 15 hostages!
What a **** up, the Brit politicians/military should have foreseen it and not put our people in a position to be taken.
In fact if I was the HMS Cornwall skipper I'd have flatly refused to risk my personnel like that even if it meant my courtmartial.
Anyway why didn't he intervene to stop them being taken when he saw the situation developing?

I just remembered something else you mentioned.

You don't think the US should intervene in the internals of another country and in your case Iran? To be truthful with you, I wouldn't want another country messing around with the internals of my own country. But it depends on what you see as right and wrong, as good and evil. If this were a perfect world, yeah, that'd be nice to be practiced and would be nice because the world would be less volitale in respect to interactions between nation states.

But once again, step back, look at what's going on in the world, look at what's going on in Iran and please tell me why the US shouldn't involve itself in the internals of that country? I'm enlighted to hear your response because you come from that country. Would you rather let the injustice continue at the expense of political and religious leaders that have no idea how to give people their freedom or to rule in a decent fashion? Or would you rather see that change? Would you allow that kind of leadership the ability to posses nuclear weapons with their track record and mentality in respect to the world and it's own people? They poss a threat to the advacement of humanity just as much as say AIDS does and human kind and need to be dealt with in the proper fashion what ever that may be at the time. Like many others agree with, though many may be sheeple, it's not the Iranian people themselves that are the threat but the government. And if you have taken offense to your fellow ex-countrymen being called sheeple, then please lead them, raise up, and start a new revolution that will bring about the correct change needed to bring freedom to those that are opressed. I feel like I'm talking about the middle ages when I talk about many places in the middle east. Maybe Iran needs a few good years of the gulliotine?

I personally I have had enough ....................lets deal with it ......yes I am prepared to don my uniform again ......we argue ......we debate.....and for what .........****ing politicians who are scared to upset there counterparts who they are talking to.............well guess what India and Pakistan instead of living under the make believe umbrella that you think you are supplying, and in control its time to get tough........... as far as I am concerned Britain should announce to the world its nuclear fleet is deployed...............24 hours .........or endex.............we have been friends with everybody for to long ........I am sick of the world thinking of Britain as weak, Iran give our Sailors and Marines back........now.....or you get what you want

Question: Who in Iran is in control of the Revolutionary Guards?

I must correct something that I realize. I know it's speculative to say

They poss a threat to the advacement of humanity just as much as say AIDS does and human kind and need to be dealt with in the proper fashion what ever that may be at the time

and in truth there is no research on this nor is there any way to compare the two quantatively. Otherwise I think my point is clear as day.