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Thread: How Strong Is the Arab Claim to Palestine?

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    How Strong Is the Arab Claim to Palestine?

    How Strong Is the Arab Claim to Palestine?
    By Lawrence Auster
    FrontPageMagazine.com | August 30, 2004

    There is a myth hanging over all discussion of the
    Palestinian problem: the myth that this land was
    "Arab" land taken from its native inhabitants by
    invading Jews. Whatever may be the correct solution to
    the problems of the Middle East, let's get a few
    things straight:

    § As a strictly legal matter, the Jews didn't
    take Palestine from the Arabs; they took it from the
    British, who exercised sovereign authority in
    Palestine under a League of Nations mandate for thirty
    years prior to Israel's declaration of independence in
    1948. And the British don't want it back.

    § If you consider the British illegitimate
    usurpers, fine. In that case, this territory is not
    Arab land but Turkish land, a province of the Ottoman
    Empire for hundreds of years until the British wrested
    it from them during the Great War in 1917. And the
    Turks don't want it back.

    § If you look back earlier in history than the
    Ottoman Turks, who took over Palestine over in 1517,
    you find it under the sovereignty of the yet another
    empire not indigenous to Palestine: the Mamluks, who
    were Turkish and Circassian slave-soldiers
    headquartered in Egypt. And the Mamluks don't even
    exist any more, so they can't want it back.

    So, going back 800 years, there's no particularly
    clear chain of title that makes Israel's title to the
    land inferior to that of any of the previous owners.
    Who were, continuing backward:

    § The Mamluks, already mentioned, who in 1250
    took Palestine over from:

    § The Ayyubi dynasty, the descendants of
    Saladin, the Kurdish Muslim leader who in 1187 took
    Jerusalem and most of Palestine from:

    § The European Christian Crusaders, who in
    1099 conquered Palestine from:

    § The Seljuk Turks, who ruled Palestine in the
    name of:

    § The Abbasid Caliphate of Baghdad, which in
    750 took over the sovereignty of the entire Near East
    from:

    § The Umayyad Caliphate of Damascus, which in
    661 inherited control of the Islamic lands from

    § The Arabs of Arabia, who in the first flush
    of Islamic expansion conquered Palestine in 638 from:

    § The Byzantines, who (nice people—perhaps it
    should go to them?) didn't conquer the Levant, but,
    upon the division of the Roman Empire in 395,
    inherited Palestine from:

    § The Romans, who in 63 B.C. took it over
    from:

    § The last Jewish kingdom, which during the
    Maccabean rebellion from 168 to 140 B.C. won control
    of the land from:

    § The Hellenistic Greeks, who under Alexander
    the Great in 333 B.C. conquered the Near East from:

    § The Persian empire, which under Cyrus the
    Great in 639 B.C. freed Jerusalem and Judah from:

    § The Babylonian empire, which under
    Nebuchadnezzar in 586 B.C. took Jerusalem and Judah
    from:

    § The Jews, meaning the people of the Kingdom
    of Judah, who, in their earlier incarnation as the
    Israelites, seized the land in the 12th and 13th
    centuries B.C. from:

    § The Canaanites, who had inhabited the land
    for thousands of years before they were dispossessed
    by the Israelites.

    As the foregoing suggests, any Arab claim to
    sovereignty based on inherited historical control will
    not stand up. Arabs are not native to Palestine, but
    are native to Arabia, which is called Arab-ia for the breathtakingly simple reason that it is the historic home of the Arabs. The terroritories comprising all other "Arab" states outside the Arabian peninsula—including Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, Tunisia, and Algeria, as well as the entity now formally under the Palestinian Authority—were originally non-Arab nations that were conquered by the Muslim Arabs when they spread out from the Arabian peninsula in the first great wave of jihad in the 7th century, defeating, mass-murdering, enslaving, dispossessing, converting, or reducing to the lowly status of dhimmitude millions of Christians and Jews and destroying their ancient and flourishing civilizations. Prior to being Christian, of course, these lands had even more ancient histories. Pharaonic Egypt, for example, was not an Arab country through its 3,000 year history.



    The recent assertion by the Palestinian Arabs that
    they are descended from the ancient Canaanites whom
    the ancient Hebrews displaced is absurd in light of
    the archeological evidence. There is no record of the Canaanites surviving their destruction in ancient times. History records literally hundreds of ancient peoples that no longer exist. The Arab claim to be descended from Canaanites is an invention that came after the 1964 founding of the Palestine Liberation Organization, the same crew who today deny that there was ever a Jewish temple in Jerusalem. Prior to 1964 there was no "Palestinian" people and no "Palestinian" claim to Palestine; the Arab nations who sought to overrun and destroy Israel in 1948 planned to divide up the territory amongst themselves. Let us also remember that prior to the founding of the state of Israel in 1948, the name "Palestinian" referred to the Jews of Palestine.



    In any case, today's "Palestine," meaning the West
    Bank and Gaza, is, like most of the world, inhabited
    by people who are not descendants of the first human
    society to inhabit that territory. This is true not
    only of recently settled countries like the United
    States and Argentina, where European settlers took the
    land from the indigenous inhabitants several hundred
    years ago, but also of ancient nations like Japan,
    whose current Mongoloid inhabitants displaced a
    primitive people, the Ainu, aeons ago. Major "native"
    tribes of South Africa, like the Zulu, are actually
    invaders from the north who arrived in the 17th
    century. One could go on and on.



    The only nations that have perfect continuity between
    their earliest known human inhabitants and their
    populations of the present day are Iceland, parts of
    China, and a few Pacific islands. The Chinese case is complicated by the fact that the great antiquity of Chinese civilization has largely erased the traces of whatever societies preceded it, making it difficult to reconstruct to what extent the expanding proto-Chinese displaced (or absorbed) the prehistoric peoples of that region. History is very sketchy in regard to the genealogies of ancient peoples. The upshot is that "aboriginalism"—the proposition that the closest descendants of the original inhabitants of a territory are the rightful owners—is not tenable in the real world. It is not clear that it would be a desirable idea even if it were tenable. Would human civilization really be better off if there had been no China, no Japan, no Greece, no Rome, no France, no England, no Ireland, no United States? Back to the Arabs

    I have no problem recognizing the legitimacy of the
    Arabs' tenure in Palestine when they had it, from 638
    to 1099, a period of 461 years out of a history
    lasting 5,000 years. They took Palestine by military
    conquest, and they lost it by conquest, to the
    Christian Crusaders in 1099. Of course, military
    occupation by itself does not determine which party
    rightly has sovereignty in a given territory. Can it
    not be said that the Arabs have sovereign rights, if
    not to all of Israel, then at least to the West Bank,
    by virtue of their majority residency in that region
    from the early Middle Ages to the present?



    To answer that question, let's look again at the
    historical record. Prior to 1947, as we've discussed,
    Palestine was administered by the British under the
    Palestine Mandate, the ultimate purpose of which,
    according to the Balfour Declaration, was the
    establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine.
    In 1924 the British divided the Palestine Mandate into
    an Arabs-only territory east of the Jordan, which
    became the Kingdom of Trans-Jordan, and a greatly
    reduced Palestine Mandate territory west of the
    Jordan, which was inhabited by both Arabs and Jews.



    Given the fact that the Jews and Arabs were unable to
    coexist in one state, there had to be two states. At
    the same time, there were no natural borders
    separating the two peoples, in the way that, for
    example, the Brenner Pass has historically marked the
    division between Latin and Germanic Europe. Since the
    Jewish population was concentrated near the coast, the
    Jewish state had to start at the coast and go some
    distance inland. Exactly where it should have stopped,
    and where the Arab state should have begun, was a
    practical question that could have been settled in any
    number of peaceful ways, almost all of which the Jews
    would have accepted. The Jews' willingness to
    compromise on territory was demonstrated not only by
    their acquiescence in the UN's 1947 partition plan,
    which gave them a state with squiggly, indefensible
    borders, but even by their earlier acceptance of the
    1937 Peel Commission partition plan, which gave them
    nothing more than a part of the Galilee and a tiny
    strip along the coast. Yet the Arab nations, refusing
    to accept any Jewish sovereignty in Palestine even if
    it was the size of a postage stamp, unanimously
    rejected the 1937 Peel plan, and nine years later they violently rejected the UN's partition plan as well. When the Arabs resorted to arms in order to wipe out the Jews and destroy the Jewish state, they accepted the verdict of arms. They lost that verdict in 1948, and they lost it again in 1967, when Jordan, which had annexed the West Bank in 1948 (without any objections from Palestinian Arabs that their sovereign nationhood was being violated), attacked Israel from the West Bank during the Six Day War despite Israel's urgent pleas that it stay out of the conflict. Israel in self-defense then captured the West Bank. The Arabs thus have no grounds to complain either about Israel's existence (achieved in '48) or about its expanded sovereignty from the river to the sea (achieved in '67).



    The Arabs have roiled the world for decades with their
    furious protest that their land has been "stolen" from
    them. One might take seriously such a statement if it
    came from a pacifist people such as the Tibetans, who
    had quietly inhabited their land for ages before it
    was seized by the Communist Chinese in 1950. The claim
    is laughable coming from the Arabs, who in the early
    Middle Ages conquered and reduced to slavery and
    penury ancient peoples and civilizations stretching
    from the borders of Persia to the Atlantic; who in
    1947 rejected an Arab state in Palestine alongside a
    Jewish state and sought to obliterate the nascent
    Jewish state; who never called for a distinct
    Palestinian Arab state until the creation of the
    terrorist PLO in 1964—sixteen years after the founding
    of the state of Israel; and who to this moment
    continue to seek Israel's destruction, an object that
    would be enormously advanced by the creation of the
    Arab state they demand. The Arab claim to sovereign
    rights west of the Jordan is only humored today
    because of a fatal combination of world need for Arab
    oil, leftist Political Correctness that has cast the
    Israelis as "oppressors," and, of course, good old
    Jew-hatred.

    http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Rea...e.asp?ID=14858
    Last edited by rhytha; 02 Sep 04, at 20:27.

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    Well the article makes a lot of good points. One of them is that most people who say they are arabs now are not ethnically arab. Arabs are from arabia, and the "arabs" in north africa and persia now were "arabized" by the invading arab armies in the 7th century. Whether they mass murdered , forced , into conversion to islam is highly controversial, and the fact that the article ignore the crusaders torture of the jews and muslims in the holy lands, makes its clearly biased. Anyhow i will talk in an open minded way.

    We have to face reality. history passes and no one can change it. Stronger countries influence weaker countries and affect their decision. Israel's existance is there and no one can deny it. The past arab political "stupidity" as i may call it, has changed overtime. For now atleast i don't know anyone living in arab coutnries who thinks "throwinging israel into the sea" is feasible as was the case earlier.

    However from the topic of "how feasible arabs claim to israel" , can be applied to "how feasible zionist claim is to israel." Alot of people around the world have been under occupation for long period of time, sometimes for 10s of centuries, this doesnt make them, however , have no rights to the land. If you consider Jews
    an ethnic group, then their claim to the land is not higher than palestenians either, as alot of jews immigrated to other countries in the past 2000 years. palestenians have been living in the area for a long time as well. Just because they were occupied by other empires, doesnt mean they dont have the right to have a nation. If they were living there before 1948, doesnt mean they need to get thrown out when the jews established the state of israel. Most of the political personnel in israel are european jews and not jews from arab countries, so the matter is political rather than religion. Religious wars aren't fought anymore, its time for all of us to realise that. Its all propaganda for people in my opinion.

    this ofcourse ignores any conversions, inter-race marriages that have occured between arabs and jews over the past 2000 years, a point that has to be considered if one is going to argue about "who the land belongs to"

    The question to whom the land belongs to arabs or jews, is rather not living up to reality of today's politics. Theres no going back in time and changing anything. Also one should not expect for palestenians to be happy of being kicked out of israel without being able to return back, even under an israeli passport. Peace is hard now, and its really sad that jews and muslims can't see their vast similarities
    and just focus on hatred against each other. With articles like these, they only strike hatred in hearts of the people.

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    Strong enough for the rest of the Arab world to only care about the Pali's as cannon fodder. No negotiating with Israel, no serious attempts at a Palistinian state, but they do hold pledge drives to fund suicide bombers.

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    Discussing the historical/religious perspective is stupid and a waste of time. The best thing to do would be to return West bank to Jordan and Gaza to Egypt, and rename Jordan Palestine or something. I hear 40% of Jordanians are Palestinian refugees/immigrants anyway, so it doesn't make one bit of difference.

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    The best thing to do would be to return West bank to Jordan and Gaza to Egypt, and rename Jordan Palestine or something.
    Israel WANTED to do that. Jordan won't take back the West Bank and Egypt won't take back Gaza.

    I hear 40% of Jordanians are Palestinian refugees/immigrants anyway, so it doesn't make one bit of difference.
    Almost 70%

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZFBoxcar
    Israel WANTED to do that. Jordan won't take back the West Bank and Egypt won't take back Gaza.
    Hardly suprising, its in their interests to keep the oppressed Palestinians occupied by the super evil Zionists, its a great way to stop dissent and divert attention from their own corrupt systems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunatock
    Strong enough for the rest of the Arab world to only care about the Pali's as cannon fodder. No negotiating with Israel, no serious attempts at a Palistinian state, but they do hold pledge drives to fund suicide bombers.
    The whole time calling them "brother"...
    No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
    I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
    even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
    He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

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    Ray
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    'Brother' is a great panacea for unity...........till the property is yours!


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan
    Discussing the historical/religious perspective is stupid and a waste of time. The best thing to do would be to return West bank to Jordan and Gaza to Egypt, and rename Jordan Palestine or something. I hear 40% of Jordanians are Palestinian refugees/immigrants anyway, so it doesn't make one bit of difference.
    I sense that you consider palestenians animals who are willing to flock to any country at your command ?

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    Excellent post Rhytha!

    Infact in the recent past, I too made a similar post!

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    Ray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anony
    I sense that you consider palestenians animals who are willing to flock to any country at your command ?
    OK.

    What is the answer?


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray
    OK.

    What is the answer?
    The answer is not for me or you to decide. The palestenians should have a voice of their own. It is illogical to just say things like "Gaza goes back to Egypt" and "West Bank to Jordon", because giving away land is not going to happen and it is not in Israel's interest to lose territory and it is not in Egypt's or Jordon's economy to take care of the infastructure of extra land when they have yet to take care of their own infastructure.
    As you can see the situation is complicated and solutions are hard to find.
    I think as long as Israel disagrees on the formation of a palestenian state or letting palestenians having equal opportunies like the Israelis themselves then there will be no just solution. If the Israeli government consider their presence in Gaza and the Westbank as liberation, then they should also treat the Arab Muslims and Arab Christians as their own citizens instead of policing them in such a way that all palestenians get the burden when Hamas or Fatah commit an attack inside Israel.
    Again I stress that we are here to discuss the possible solutions and you must know that we are in no power of giving direct answers.

    .

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    "I sense that you consider palestenians animals who are willing to flock to any country at your command ?'

    I personally see quite a few of them as just animals.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by smilingassassin
    "I sense that you consider palestenians animals who are willing to flock to any country at your command ?'

    I personally see quite a few of them as just animals.....
    All I could say to this racist statement is " to each his own". Maybe these opinions matter to ignorant people, they don't matter in politics.
    Last edited by Anony; 06 Sep 04, at 04:59.

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    its not racist to call suicide bombers animals, or Hamas, or Islamic Jihad (the bringers of suicide bombers).

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