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Thread: US 'arrogant and stupid' in Iraq

  1. #1
    Ray
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    US 'arrogant and stupid' in Iraq

    US 'arrogant and stupid' in Iraq

    Mr Fernandez said failure in Iraq would be a regional disaster

    A senior US state department official has said that the US has shown "arrogance and stupidity" in Iraq.

    Alberto Fernandez made the remarks during an interview with Arabic television station al-Jazeera.

    The state department says Mr Fernandez was quoted incorrectly - but BBC Arabic language experts say Mr Fernandez did indeed use the words.

    It comes after President George W Bush discussed changing tactics with top US commanders to try to combat the unrest.

    Mr Fernandez, an Arabic speaker who is director of public diplomacy in the state department's Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs, told Qatar-based al-Jazeera that the world was "witnessing failure in Iraq".

    "That's not the failure of the United States alone, but it is a disaster for the region," he said.

    "I think there is great room for strong criticism, because without doubt, there was arrogance and stupidity by the United States in Iraq."

    He also said that the US was now willing to speak to any insurgent group except al-Qaeda in an effort to reduce sectarian bloodshed in Iraq.

    "We are open to dialogue because we all know that, at the end of the day, the solution to the hell and the killings in Iraq is linked to an effective Iraqi national reconciliation."

    Winds of change?

    However, state department spokesman Sean McCormack said: "What he [Alberto Fernandez] says is that it is not an accurate quote."

    Mr McCormack also denied that the US had been guilty of arrogance or stupidity saying that history would be the judge of US actions in Iraq.

    The BBC Monitoring Service has confirmed that Mr Fernandez did use the words "arrogance and stupidity" in his interview.

    Mr Fernandez's comments came after Mr Bush said that US troops were changing tactics to deal with the insurgency in Iraq.

    Mr Bush held a video conference on the new measures with top US military commanders in Iraq on Saturday against the backdrop of more US losses in Iraq - 78 so far this month.

    new poll suggests two-thirds of Americans believe the US is losing the war in Iraq, a proportion which analysts says could translate into a drubbing at the polls for Mr Bush's Republican Party in next month's mid-term elections.

    The BBC's James Westhead in Washington says that while there is no official change in US strategy, change is on everyone's lips.

    But a report in the New York Times that officials are drawing up a timetable for Iraq's government to improve security has been denied by both White House and state department officials.

    In an interview with the BBC, British Foreign Office Minister Kim Howells has suggested that the Iraqi security forces could take over much of the work of US-led forces within a year.

    On Sunday funerals were taking place for 17 people killed in a mortar attack on a market near the capital, Baghdad.


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6074182.stm
    What's going on in the US?

    Have people gone bonkers?

    Or are they getting cold feet, now that the casualties are a wee bit more?

    The bickering that is going on in the US and UK is surely indicating to the rest of the world that both the US and UK have no stomach for waging war inspite of all the brouhaha that was there to commence the war. And that they are paper tigers (tp use the Chinese terminology). Is that a truism? I think not.

    These REMFs must stop this demoralising campaign, wailing and whine-ing. They are doing no good for the morale of the troops or for morale of the nations.

    It is a difficult war, but it is nowhere where one has to throw in the towel.

    Wars cannot be casualty less.

    Wars are like pendulums.

    A tough patch does not mean all is lost.

    The British were thrown back all the way through Burma to India by the Japanese in a disgraceful defeat in WWII. The British took this ignominy with stoic, silence and dignity and then hit back all the way to Japan.

    So, take heart!
    Last edited by Ray; 23 Oct 06, at 11:18.


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    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    What's going on in the US?

    Have people gone bonkers?
    Yes.

    The US public has the attention span shorter than a gold fish with Alzheimer's. It takes time to rebuild a nation. And it wasn't too long ago that EVERYONE thought Saddam was bad and removing him would be a good idea.

    Thanks to the constant drumbeat of the anti-war media, the people believe and war is 1. wrong, and 2. we're losing.

    The media hasn't changed since Vietnam.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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    An t-aimiréal chléthúil Senior Contributor crooks's Avatar
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    Anti-war media?

    In the country where Fox news are?

    Never !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by crooks View Post
    Anti-war media?

    In the country where Fox news are?

    Never !!!
    FOX News is THE ONLY non left wing leaning mainsteam source of news.

    CNN, MSNBC, most major newspapers, etc are all left leaning some more so then others.

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    it's also the cable news market leader.

    honestly, though, i find it amusing when americans complain about bias in the media. everywhere else in the world, media is so biased one way or another that it makes american journalism look moderate and staid in comparison!
    The human mind cannot grasp the causes of phenomena in the aggregate. But the need to find these causes is inherent in man’s soul. And the human intellect, without investigating the multiplicity and complexity of the conditions of phenomena, any one of which taken separately may seem to be the cause, snatches at the first, the most intelligible approximation to a cause, and says: “This is the cause!"

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    Staff Emeritus Julie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    Yes.

    The US public has the attention span shorter than a gold fish with Alzheimer's. It takes time to rebuild a nation. And it wasn't too long ago that EVERYONE thought Saddam was bad and removing him would be a good idea.

    Thanks to the constant drumbeat of the anti-war media, the people believe and war is 1. wrong, and 2. we're losing.

    The media hasn't changed since Vietnam.
    #1 everyone agreed it was a good idea to remove Saddam probably based upon Bush saying during his candidacy that he would not "nation build."

    #2 Iraqi's did want Saddam removed, but they DO NOT want America occupying and nation-building within their country.

    #3 Bush is losing because he's doing something that he said he would not do.

    #4 Get the contractors out, and get the peacekeepers in.

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    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crooks View Post
    Anti-war media?

    In the country where Fox news are?

    Never !!!
    Give me another conservative mainstream media other than Fox and Wall Street Journal.

    For anti-war media, I give you:

    New York Times
    Los Angeles Times
    Boston Globe
    Chicago Tribune
    Baltimore Sun
    Atlanta Constitution Journal

    ABC
    NBC
    CBS
    CNN
    MSNBC
    PBS
    NPR

    Rosie O'Donnel
    Sean Penn
    Dixie Chicks
    Bruce Springstein
    Bon Jovi
    Martin Sheen
    Harrison Ford
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julie View Post
    #1 everyone agreed it was a good idea to remove Saddam probably based upon Bush saying during his candidacy that he would not "nation build."

    #2 Iraqi's did want Saddam removed, but they DO NOT want America occupying and nation-building within their country.

    #3 Bush is losing because he's doing something that he said he would not do.

    #4 Get the contractors out, and get the peacekeepers in.
    Very good points. I remember Bush said "we will not embark on any nation building agenda" during his inaugarul speech.

    However, that was before 9-11, when we could afford to turn a blind eye on muslim extremists blowing up stuff outside of continental US.

    #2. Agreed. We are just trying to be nice to restore some form of government back to Iraq. Everyone can agree on anarchy is not the answer to Iraq. Where it should end? I don't know. Some actually said the answer is not a democracy but a pro-US dictatorship (of course one that does not oppress the people...too much)

    #3. 9-11 kinda changed the ball game

    #4. Contractors are in there because they are civilian specialists who can get the job done, and they are there voluntarily. UN Peacekeepers will turn tail and run at the first sight of IED. Remember when UN compound was hit by a truck bomb in December of 2003? UN retreated. UN is a spineless organization when it comes to dealing with bullies.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    What's going on in the US?

    Have people gone bonkers?

    Or are they getting cold feet, now that the casualties are a wee bit more?

    The bickering that is going on in the US and UK is surely indicating to the rest of the world that both the US and UK have no stomach for waging war inspite of all the brouhaha that was there to commence the war. And that they are paper tigers (tp use the Chinese terminology). Is that a truism? I think not.

    These REMFs must stop this demoralising campaign, wailing and whine-ing. They are doing no good for the morale of the troops or for morale of the nations.

    It is a difficult war, but it is nowhere where one has to throw in the towel.

    Wars cannot be casualty less.

    Wars are like pendulums.

    A tough patch does not mean all is lost.

    The British were thrown back all the way through Burma to India by the Japanese in a disgraceful defeat in WWII. The British took this ignominy with stoic, silence and dignity and then hit back all the way to Japan.

    So, take heart!
    Well, when you guys in India get that little 20 y/o skirmish cleaned up where you've pretty much lost Kashmir to islamic arabs who are blowing someone up almost every day - let me know. Then maybe you'll have room to call someone else stupid.

    I don't suppose we can hold the ME islamic/arabs responsible for murdering each other and causing all the crap in the first place. It's America for having the gall to try and help them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Well, when you guys in India get that little 20 y/o skirmish cleaned up where you've pretty much lost Kashmir to islamic arabs who are blowing someone up almost every day - let me know. Then maybe you'll have room to call someone else stupid.

    I don't suppose we can hold the ME islamic/arabs responsible for murdering each other and causing all the crap in the first place. It's America for having the gall to try and help them.
    Well atleast no one in kashmir is talking about quitting. thats what we are talking about here..90 + percent of the civilian population dont want the army to leave the region becauise of militant islam. thats not happening in iraq. anyway (I am not a SME in this matter. let the military folks who have hands on experience EDUCATE you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    It's America for having the gall to try and help them.
    now that was funnyt...great help you are doing them..what help do you think you are doing!!! please elucidate..ahhaa thanks for the laugh, now let me get back to work

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    Give me another conservative mainstream media other than Fox and Wall Street Journal.

    For anti-war media, I give you:

    New York Times
    Los Angeles Times
    Boston Globe
    Chicago Tribune
    Baltimore Sun
    Atlanta Constitution Journal

    ABC
    NBC
    CBS
    CNN
    MSNBC
    PBS
    NPR

    Rosie O'Donnel
    Sean Penn
    Dixie Chicks
    Bruce Springstein
    Bon Jovi
    Martin Sheen
    Harrison Ford
    i understand these folks have sway in some way to public opinion, but they arent "media". they dont report the news.

    and the boston globe is a conservative newspaper, you may of meant the "boston herald"<owned by the national inquirer, believe it or not>

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    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Low-tech View Post
    i understand these folks have sway in some way to public opinion, but they arent "media". they dont report the news.

    and the boston globe is a conservative newspaper, you may of meant the "boston herald"<owned by the national inquirer, believe it or not>
    Rosie has a popular talk show on day time tv where she invites conservatives on to make fun of.

    The singers like to denouce Bush at every one of their concerts.

    The actors often show up and donate money to the left wing loonies in this country. They don't have a direct sway over the public, but their money funds those who actually have sway.

    I'm pretty sure Boston Globe is liberal. But then again I've been proven wrong before.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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    The problem is that the US leadership totally screwed up and has made the situation into a terrible mess with no obvious fixes- even if it showed an inclination to learn from it's mistakes.

    Therefore, there is little reason to continue to support a counter-productive endeavour.

    Still, we cannot leave Iraq regardless, as it would be seen as an obvious surrender.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    Rosie has a popular talk show on day time tv where she invites conservatives on to make fun of.

    The singers like to denouce Bush at every one of their concerts.

    The actors often show up and donate money to the left wing loonies in this country. They don't have a direct sway over the public, but their money funds those who actually have sway.

    I'm pretty sure Boston Globe is liberal. But then again I've been proven wrong before.
    the globe is most definitely conservative.....next time i go across the street to the 7/11 ill have to read thier op-ed section to double check thier views on the war tho, i rarely read it or browse thru someone elses. im pretty sure they are down for the war.

    the herald on the other hand is the liberal competitor.



    what makes these media sources anti-war?

    for example, if i felt they truely are anti-war they could do a thing that was common during vietnam.............show alot of graphic photos,video of dead civilians and bombed out war scenes, its very easy to cause an extremely negative emotional reaction. agit-prop i think is the term.

    there is some journalists who have a site of tons of photos on the iraq war, i wont link it, very graphic pictures of dead troops,dead civilians, warzones, soldiers with missing limbs in recovery, up close pictures of car bombings where you can see whats left of the driver and whoever was around.

    this is not some sick gore site, its from photographers in iraq, all it does is just show whats the daily reality there of the fighting.

    if they were really gung-ho about ending the war...........they can do alot more damage.

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