World Politics expert - Page 2

entropy · 10-19-2007, 15:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluesman

Some expert. You can't even get your own quotes right.

Welcome anyway, Mr. Modesty; you seem like a great new chew-toy.

We have not been properly fed with chew-toys for a time now.

Bluesman · 10-19-2007, 15:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astralis

welcome, john

a quick warning, though- prepare to be challenged!

Especially if that ridiculous sig stays put.

HistoricalDavid · 10-19-2007, 16:05 PM

Thy modesty is like a cheap gold-digger with tarted up hair: it won't fool anybody beyond the idiot.

glyn · 10-19-2007, 17:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluesman

Especially if that ridiculous sig stays put.

Come come fellows. That could be an amusing piece of self-deprecation. His posts seem up to par, anyway.

entropy · 10-19-2007, 17:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glyn

Come come fellows. That could be an amusing piece of self-deprecation. His posts seem up to par, anyway.

Agreed. His posts show knowlegde, at least I have not detected major holes in them.

JAD_333 · 10-19-2007, 19:34 PM

We've had a few go rounds on that Jefferson quote. Maybe you can shed some light on how dissent can be regarded the highest expression of patriotism when the classic expressions, namely love of one's country and willingness to defend it, would necessarily be the basis of any dissent.

Welcome to the WAB.

Bluesman · 10-19-2007, 19:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAD_333

We've had a few go rounds on that Jefferson quote. Maybe you can shed some light on how dissent can be regarded the highest expression of patriotism when the classic expressions, namely love of one's country and willingness to defend it, would necessarily be the basis of any dissent.

Welcome to the WAB.

That's my whole point: it isn't a 'Jefferson quote'. It was first said by that fathead Howard Zinn in 2000. Jefferson was far too smart to have said anything that stupid.

And our boy, whom everybody is pronouncing as intelligent based on his first few posts, seems not to know this.

JohnFlint1985 · 10-19-2007, 19:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAD_333

We've had a few go rounds on that Jefferson quote. Maybe you can shed some light on how dissent can be regarded the highest expression of patriotism when the classic expressions, namely love of one's country and willingness to defend it, would necessarily be the basis of any dissent.

Welcome to the WAB.

In my mind, I maybe wrong though, I really patriotic person is not afraid to state something which is against majority opinion. I saw too many times in my life and not only in USA, that most of the time Majority represent power, but not truth - so to stand firm on your principles against power of many - does require a lot of love for your country and is a truly patriotic. Just an opinion.

crooks · 10-19-2007, 19:46 PM

Fáilte John - and good luck, you might need it

.

dave lukins · 10-19-2007, 19:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluesman

That's my whole point: it isn't a 'Jefferson quote'. It was first said by that fathead Howard Zinn in 2000. Jefferson was far too smart to have said anything that stupid.

And our boy, whom everybody is pronouncing as intelligent based on his first few posts, seems not to know this.

Blue, I typed that Quote into my search engine and it came up as Thomas J

I have also read Zinn, who wrote a book called dissent

dave lukins · 10-19-2007, 19:57 PM

Just going slightly off thread... but who is that guy putting porn in the intro thread. BE WARNED!!

he's called Mopllilreas on the Hey/godsSon intro

Shamus · 10-19-2007, 20:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave lukins

Blue, I typed that Quote into my search engine and it came up as Thomas J

I have also read Zinn, who wrote a book called dissent

Here's a little more for you Dave,

According to the Jefferson Library:

"There are a number of quotes that we do not find in Thomas Jefferson's correspondence or other writings; in such cases, Jefferson should not be cited as the source. Among the most common of these spurious Jefferson quotes are: 'Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.' " . . .

Dorothy Hewitt Hutchinson, 1965: "Dissent from public policy can be the highest form of patriotism."

Hutchinson was the National President of the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom in 1961-1965 and a pacifist who thought that WWII was immoral and illegal.

It was Nadine Strosser [sic], the ACLU's head honcho, who cooked up the Jefferson fake and used it numerous times during the 1990's.
It has been used,not only by Zinn,but by John Kerry and Ted Kennedy.

Nuff said

dave lukins · 10-19-2007, 20:10 PM

Thanks for clearing that up for me Don ...Cheers

JAD_333 · 10-19-2007, 20:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluesman

That's my whole point: it isn't a 'Jefferson quote'. It was first said by that fathead Howard Zinn in 2000. Jefferson was far too smart to have said anything that stupid.

And our boy, whom everybody is pronouncing as intelligent based on his first few posts, seems not to know this.

I should have said attributed to TJ

...but I am more interested in the sentiment itself because it seems to have become a rallying cry of late. I've been trying to pin down the fallacy in it. Here's one insight from Jefferson himself. It has a lot a meaning given the heated debate over Iraq.

Quote:

"Political dissension is doubtless a less evil than the lethargy of despotism: but still it is a great evil, and it would be as worthy the efforts of the patriot as of the philosopher, to exclude it's influence if possible, from social life. The good are rare enough at best. There is no reason to subdivide them by artificial lines. But whether we shall ever be able so far to perfect the principles of society as that political opinions shall, in it's intercourse, be as inoffensive as those of philosophy, mechanics, or any other, may well be doubted." TJ to Thomas Pinckney, 29 May 1797

I am thinking on that account, and seeing as how a lot of good people make mistakes from time to time, we can overlook John's misquotation.

JAD_333 · 10-19-2007, 20:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamus

Here's a little more for you Dave,

According to the Jefferson Library:

"There are a number of quotes that we do not find in Thomas Jefferson's correspondence or other writings; in such cases, Jefferson should not be cited as the source. Among the most common of these spurious Jefferson quotes are: 'Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.' " . . .

Dorothy Hewitt Hutchinson, 1965: "Dissent from public policy can be the highest form of patriotism."

Hutchinson was the National President of the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom in 1961-1965 and a pacifist who thought that WWII was immoral and illegal.

It was Nadine Strosser [sic], the ACLU's head honcho, who cooked up the Jefferson fake and used it numerous times during the 1990's.
It has been used,not only by Zinn,but by John Kerry and Ted Kennedy.

Nuff said

Good digs, Shamus.

10-19-2007, 16:05 PM	#18 (permalink)
HistoricalDavid Distant Deeps or Skies *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 07-19-05 Location: North London, UK Posts: 2,100 Country:	Thy modesty is like a cheap gold-digger with tarted up hair: it won't fool anybody beyond the idiot. __________________ HD Ready?

10-19-2007, 19:34 PM	#21 (permalink)
JAD_333 *Defense Professional* Join Date: 04-15-07 Location: Virginia Posts: 2,911 Country:	We've had a few go rounds on that Jefferson quote. Maybe you can shed some light on how dissent can be regarded the highest expression of patriotism when the classic expressions, namely love of one's country and willingness to defend it, would necessarily be the basis of any dissent. Welcome to the WAB. __________________ To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education. (Plato)

10-19-2007, 19:46 PM	#24 (permalink)
crooks Green, White 'n Orange *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 10-17-06 Location: Blarney, County Cork, Ireland Posts: 1,316 Country:	Fáilte John - and good luck, you might need it . __________________ 'An neart de an tir, an gra den daonra agus an gloir de Eireann'.

10-19-2007, 19:57 PM	#26 (permalink)
dave lukins *Military Professional* Join Date: 01-04-07 Location: cheshire uk Posts: 5,192 Country:	Just going slightly off thread... but who is that guy putting porn in the intro thread. BE WARNED!! he's called Mopllilreas on the Hey/godsSon intro Last edited by dave lukins : 10-19-2007 at 20:00 PM.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

10-19-2007, 20:10 PM	#28 (permalink)
dave lukins *Military Professional* Join Date: 01-04-07 Location: cheshire uk Posts: 5,192 Country:	Thanks for clearing that up for me Don ...Cheers

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
F86 vs Mig 15	Big K	Military Aviation	32	05-03-2008 00:23 AM
Pakistan votes to roll back Islamic law on rape	Julie	Political Discussions	21	11-16-2006 12:53 PM
Reliance to roll out 1500 supermarkets and 1000 hypermarkets by September	OrdinaryGuy	Political Discussions	19	06-23-2006 09:33 AM
So, guys...who here has heard what they're doing with the Flight 93 memorial?	Bluesman	World Affairs Board Pub	42	12-01-2005 18:40 PM
indian manufacturing lines roll out first MKI.	ajaybhutani	South Asian Defense Topics	4	11-28-2004 11:17 AM