ExNavyAmerican

Welcome RamHammer! Don't mind Bluesman. He abuses all the newcomers. And as you might have guessed, glyn's biggest pet-pieve is how users don't fill in their profiles.

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"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever."
- Thomas Jefferson

Shamus

Actually at this point may I recommend full plate armor and a very thick skin if you decide to go where angels fear to tread....I.E....post opinions with no factual evidence to back them up.This board has an impressive number of military and defense professionals.....people who have been at the sharp end of the spear.Try to remember this when you are tempted to throw out a comment of your own.This is a great community of people who have taught me an incredible amount.Use your time here wisely and you will learn more than you ever thought possible.

Welcome to the jungle...uhhh,the WAB .

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A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but
it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

dave lukins

Did I or did I not warn You Once bitten twice shy..We ARE nice people here, once the Alligator skin is removed

RamHammer

What do you mean, "silly" stuff?

It was just my intro; I didn't think that I had to go so in-depth there..;

I will "wear my cup", and "bring my 'A' game" here.

What we have started is a religious civil war; the issue will be there long after we leave Iraq.

Abortion: Good point, don't really have a rebuttal there.

Please don't assume that I am just some teenage punk who doesn't care.

That is why I joined these boards.

Thanks again everyone.

Parihaka

Even when you remove the alligator skin, we still have sharp teeth
Welcome to the board by the way RamHammer, and my apologies for not saying so before

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In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz

Bluesman

I didn't assume you were a punk (I rather think you're NOT, actually), nor do I think you don't care. Clearly, you DO.

But as to the 'silly' parts:

There is no religious civil war. There never was. We have Sunni fighting Sunni, Shiite fighting Shiite, and both fighting alongside each other, against each other's sects. Believe me when I tell you, this is no religious civil war. It's an insurgency with religious components. But those components aren't even prime.

And as far as what 'we' did to bring it about, and how we've upset that illusion of stability that you and the foreign policy 'realists' fetishize, the best thing that could possibly happen for the region and for ourselves is the removal and permanent abolition of the thugocracies that represented the chimera of stability. THAT is what has turned the Middle East into the sewer that it has become, and which is inherently UNstable. And at long last, the process has begun to introduce some modicum of decency into the most corrupt, grasping, hopeless region on this entire planet. While you hold this to be a BAD thing, and a mark against your own culture, I'm proud of the work we've finally started there, and that we're no longer seeking our own safety through the continued misery of others. We're finally living up to our ideals, and we're not using innocent people that were held captive by despots, just because those thugs were more friendly to us than to our main enemies.

And Finally,

Usually, the mark of a young person that comes here is one of immaturity, and they tend to try to slap back when we cudgel 'em around a bit. One of my self-appointed functions here is to do a temperature check, usually in a virtually-rectal fashion, to see what we've got coming across our transom. (I like this place quite a bit; I'm not about to see it be populated with riff-raff, so I'm walking my guardpost, challenging ones who would enter, in order to see if they represent a threat to the community.)

Some, especially recently, have failed spectacularly to make the cut, and the flame-outs have been something to witness. You're WAY ahead of that mark as of now, and I appreciate two things: you didn't blow up, but you DID stick up for yourself in a dignified way.

Enjoy the WAB; we'll no doubt have more to say to each other, and I'm not one to spare anybody's feelings, BUT...when we disagree, it's not the end of my regard for you.

When you reach that point, you'll know it.

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"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell

TopHatter

Welcome aboard RamHammer. I see you've met our resident pitbull.

Trust me, he's actually a really good guy.

Glad to see you like history, plenty of people here to talk to about that.

dave lukins

History? what happened yesterday?

JAD_333

Give the lad a chance, blues. Who knows, he may upend all our cherished views.

Welcome, rammer. Enjoy the action.

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To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education. (Plato)

dave lukins

Jad, put that "cigarette" out, there's a good boy It's Blue you're talkng about!! He's a Californy'' now don cha no???

Bluesman

HEY, I just patted him on the head! Keep up, can'cha?

JAD_333

Whatever possessed me. Don't you be thinking them West Coast boys got anything on us Virginians.

RamHammer

Hi everyone, thanks for all the war welcomes.

Yes, please do give me a chance; I will try to post my thoughts without offending anyone.

I'm not your avearge west coaster: I don't surf, and I don't skateboard.

Anyways, I have a rebuttal to Bluesman. [Is there a debate section by the way?]

Thanks, Bluesman.

I am glad that I'm "ahead of the mark." To truly be informed, you have to look at both sides of the picture; that is why I do not blow up when someone disagrees with me. Who knows, I might even see it their way. (Don't push it )

However, I do not see how it is not a civil war.

The definition of civil war, according to dictionary.com:

A state of hostility or conflict between elements within an organization.

Sunnis and shittes are two different sects within the same religion. So, since you could call a religion a sort of "organization:, I would say that it classifies as a civi war. Sunnis vs. Sunnis and Shitties vs. Shitties further illustrates the point of a civil war, because within a sect, that is fighting another sect, there is fighting.


Why are they hopeless? Hopeless in what sense? Just because they don’t do what the U.S. wants them to do?

How have we improved the region? We upset the balance of power. Now, there is no one to counter Iran. Just because he is a bad person, we can’t go to war with the country. There are plenty of bad dictators out there; why Iraq? Why not Iran, South Korea, Cuba [I know the U.S. has had a bad track record with Cuba.]

What is the goal to what the U.S. has started?

I’m sorry if I have come off to harshly.

I don’t understand this:” And at long last, the process has begun to introduce some modicum of decency into the most corrupt, grasping, hopeless region on this entire planet. While you hold this to be a BAD thing, and a mark against your own culture...”

Officer of Engineers

My advice. Don't try. However, be prepared to counter the arguements and links against you. If we show that you are wrong, you cannot ignore that point and proceed as if we don't know squat. If you offend us by facts, then we are not offended but we will be strongly offended if you ignore our counter-points.

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Chimo

RamHammer

Are you saying that I just ignored a counter-point? If I am proved wrong, I will accept it; I will not ignore a point willing.