Military Professionals Program - Page 2

S-2 · 12-17-2006, 16:57 PM

Thanks for the consideration and the wonderful forum. It really is an exceptional collection of posters.

glyn · 12-17-2006, 17:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S-2

Thanks for the consideration and the wonderful forum. It really is an exceptional collection of posters.

At my age I feel more like an IMposter!

sappersgt · 12-17-2006, 18:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glyn

At my age I feel more like an IMposter!

Some lessons are timeless:

In Namibia we were given two squads from the local Kommando to help defend the town. One elderly gent asked me what he could do to help. I jokingly said, "Nothing unless you know anything about fighting tanks!".

He replied, "Oh that!, I can help you there." It turns out he was 17 at El Alamein (he was now 57). He proceeded to give us a lesson in how they had fought tanks in North Africa. We put some of those ideas to good use.

Later on as an instructor I incorporated his wisdom into my lessons, giving credit to an old soldier where it was due.

zraver · 12-17-2006, 19:44 PM

Quote:

He replied, "Oh that!, I can help you there." It turns out he was 17 at El Alamein (he was now 57). He proceeded to give us a lesson in how they had fought tanks in North Africa. We put some of those ideas to good use.

When I was about 13 or so and a dungeons and dragons fan I met two old men mr Schmakheit who when he wa sin his ealry teens was swooped up and impressed by the nazi's in the east in 45. He was given a a Panzerfaust and told to go kill Russian tanks. being smarter than thet he went west with his uniform and surrendered to the Americans.

The other was a tanker in the 2nd Armored who saw service in North Africa under patton himself. Thats what really started my love of tanks, and by 17 I was a tanker myself.

The amount of bonifide experts here is amazing and lends a credability missing from most forums.

**TopHatter** · 12-17-2006, 21:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zraver

The amount of bonifide experts here is amazing and lends a credability missing from most forums.

We're rather proud of our military membership and "street cred" as well.

The great part is that non-experts like myself that are looking for information can get the real deal here at the WAB without worrying about the massive number of fakers lurker around the Web.

sappersgt · 12-17-2006, 23:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shek

Glyn,

I'll have to disagree here, at least within the American military. My observation has been that while those who have served before as enlisted have made some of the best officers, those plucked from the ranks have alos made by far the worst officers (they were either stuck in their ways or else couldn't make the break from being enlisted and were too buddy buddy with the soldiers in their units, to the detriment of the unit). On the contrary, those from the non-OCS commissioning sources were on average pretty good to great, with only a few outliers.

Second, as an army with a tradition of being big on maneuver and firepower, we often promote folks beyond their strategic capabilities - you are advanced based on your tactical prowess in tactical units. However, at some point, you decisions are strategic, and not tactical. Yet, many don't have the necessary strategic foundation to make strategic decisions. Thus, you end up with a General Franks that wants to talk about taking out a bunker in Afghanistan instead of grand strategy when addressing an audience that is at the operational or strategic levels of their careers. By requiring prior service as an enlistee, you'll cut down on the advanced education opportunities for officers, as most will need to complete their undergraduate studies, and timelines won't allow for as many graduate school opportunities as exists now. If you look at the US Army, it's been those with advanced graduate experience that have excelled: Petraeus, Chiarelli, McMaster, etc.

So, from this side of the pond, I would heartily disagree with the prior service requirement (you can look at Israel as an example - officers with great tactical and operational experience, but not so keen on some strategic areas, resulting in some less than optimal performance during its occupational duties in the territories).

This isn't the first time I've heard about the best and worst dichotomy of officers promoted from the ranks. In fact I've heard it often enough to believe it to be at least partially true.

The only mustangs I worked with were really good but they were all previously Sapper NCOs. Sappers were already selected from the top 3%. While attending the Battle School the only other (non Sapper) NCOs I saw there were all Sergeant Majors.

I do see the benefit of promoting from the ranks based on performance in combat. Combat itself is a school. A school with a steep learning curve. Promoting combat experienced enlisted men gives you competent small unit combat leaders. That leaves two problems. First just because you are a good platoon (or company) commander doesn't mean you're a good battalion or brigade commander. Being promoted above your level of competence can be a problem.

Secondly for every combat officer there is an equal or greater number of noncombat officers. These officers require a skill set acquired only with extensive education and training. Requiring a previous term of enlistment cuts down dramatically on the time available to train these officers. In a perfect world all of your officers could be crossed trained in combat and non combat skills to the level you desired.

Glyns comment about Danish officer cadets and the time remaining in their enlistment is telling. Their enlistments expire almost at he same time they graduate! It's evident you'd need to increase retention or extend enlistment times (IA?).

Perhaps as Shek has suggested a blend of both schools of thought schools would be best.

Ray · 12-18-2006, 00:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironduke

Heh, not quite sure what you are referring to

On another note, I don't think its you who should be thanking us, it's us who should be thanking the military professionals here at WAB.

Aha!

the good old Engineers are at their best while the dig Deep Trench Latrines with Payloaders!

Thanks for allowing me to join the bandwagon!

667medic · 12-18-2006, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rifleman

I do appreciate the blue though. Infantry colors!

Hmmm in Singapore, green is the colour of Infantry......

sappersgt · 12-18-2006, 14:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 667medic

Hmmm in Singapore, green is the colour of Infantry......

Quote:

I do appreciate the blue though. Infantry colors!

Blue works! SADF Sappers were known through out Africa as "Blauensages" for their distinctive blue utility uniforms worn in the field.

667medic · 12-18-2006, 21:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sappersgt

Blue works! SADF Sappers were known through out Africa as "Blauensages" for their distinctive blue utility uniforms worn in the field.

Blue field uniform

That has got to look more hilarious than the PLA Marine uniform, no offense meant.
BTW don't think that the colour matters much as every thing would look brown after a couple of days in the field

sappersgt · 12-18-2006, 21:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 667medic

Blue field uniform

That has got to look more hilarious than the PLA Marine uniform, no offense meant.
BTW don't think that the colour matters much as every thing would look brown after a couple of days in the field

Well, they did get hot. Blue with subdued insignia. They got faded and dusty real quick. We also had khaki uniforms like everyone else.

Sergeants had the option of wearing officers type head gear, kind of like US Navy Chiefs. Of course it wasn't included in your uniform allowance. The good part was when I wore a jacket they couldn't tell me apart from any of the other officers. This meant I could roar through the main gate without being stopped. By the time they realised it was me it was too late. I usually developed a sudden deafness to their yells as I went by!

Simullacrum · 12-20-2006, 14:38 PM

Hello All

Glad to be apart of WAB.
Good forums for discussion, ideas, debates and arguments...nice to be a part of.
Thank you for the add to the Program.

Spoken to a few lads here, which have ernt my respect. (which aint an easy thing to do)

You can all call me sim for short...simullacrum is a bit of a mouthfull.

oh, im a Limie by the way so sarcasim is rife.

Will try to be more pro-active with the forums, now that I have a some time on my hands.

I Look forward to conversing/debating with you all, privetley and public'ly within these forums.

tankie · 01-05-2007, 13:13 PM

HI to all , i was a serving tank soldier from 1969 to 1982 , served in 1RTR u/k the same outfit as Glyn and Dave Lukins and also Elbmek , i am by no means a military expert , however i have lots ofmilitary experience . i started my military life as a centurian tank driver , and then served on chieftains , the regt then went to recce serving on scimitar and scorpion armoured fighting vehicles , of which i had my own command , i was also a regimental gunnery instructor on 30mm 76mm and gpmg,any questions i will gladly try to answer .

Terminator · 01-06-2007, 19:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 667medic

Hmmm in Singapore, green is the colour of Infantry......

US special force, Green Berets!

Terminator · 01-06-2007, 19:24 PM

Hi to all brothers!
I'm a Singaporean who used to serve in the Singapore. My armylife was born in Singapore Infantry Regiment, but had been posted as a instructor & platoon Sergeant in Singapore School of Infantry Specialists & FDS, field defence squadron thoughout my 7-yrs in it.

Really interested to know how the world works every now & then &.. i'm here, WAB

12-17-2006, 16:57 PM	#16 (permalink)
S-2 *Military Professional* Join Date: 09-11-06 Location: Bend, Oregon Posts: 1,924 Country:	IronDuke Reply Thanks for the consideration and the wonderful forum. It really is an exceptional collection of posters.

12-20-2006, 14:38 PM	#27 (permalink)
Simullacrum *Military Professional* Join Date: 09-08-05 Posts: 246	Mil pro Hello All Glad to be apart of WAB. Good forums for discussion, ideas, debates and arguments...nice to be a part of. Thank you for the add to the Program. Spoken to a few lads here, which have ernt my respect. (which aint an easy thing to do) You can all call me sim for short...simullacrum is a bit of a mouthfull. oh, im a Limie by the way so sarcasim is rife. Will try to be more pro-active with the forums, now that I have a some time on my hands. I Look forward to conversing/debating with you all, privetley and public'ly within these forums.

01-05-2007, 13:13 PM	#28 (permalink)
tankie tankie *Military Professional* Join Date: 11-22-06 Location: u/k Posts: 1,784 Country:	HI to all , i was a serving tank soldier from 1969 to 1982 , served in 1RTR u/k the same outfit as Glyn and Dave Lukins and also Elbmek , i am by no means a military expert , however i have lots ofmilitary experience . i started my military life as a centurian tank driver , and then served on chieftains , the regt then went to recce serving on scimitar and scorpion armoured fighting vehicles , of which i had my own command , i was also a regimental gunnery instructor on 30mm 76mm and gpmg,any questions i will gladly try to answer . __________________ TANKIE , WITHOUT WAX

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01-06-2007, 19:24 PM	#30 (permalink)
Terminator *Military Professional* Join Date: 01-06-07 Posts: 14	Hi to all brothers! I'm a Singaporean who used to serve in the Singapore. My armylife was born in Singapore Infantry Regiment, but had been posted as a instructor & platoon Sergeant in Singapore School of Infantry Specialists & FDS, field defence squadron thoughout my 7-yrs in it. Really interested to know how the world works every now & then &.. i'm here, WAB

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