M1A2 vs T-80U - Page 3

TNP · 08-13-2003, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

The US has had radar scattering camo nets for years. All camo nets help to break up the outline of the vehicle, even through FLIR.

Nothing new there.

Radar is one thing but IR?
Wasn't aware of that.

lurker · 08-13-2003, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

The US has had radar scattering camo nets for years. All camo nets help to break up the outline of the vehicle, even through FLIR.

Nothing new there.

Camo nets? Not sure if this was an answer on my post.

"Arena" is not camo... anything, it's an automated system to shot-down attacking AT weapons (that little tower on a turret). Maybe you mistake it for "Shtora" - aerosol camo system?

Stinger · 08-13-2003, 07:45 AM

Snipe was responding to a post about camo netting TNP had made... We've tried to teach him to use the quote button but he hasn't quite picked it up yet

Edit: I go home as a Corporal I come back to work and I'm a Specialist... :-x

lurker · 08-13-2003, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stinger

Snipe was responding to a post about camo netting TNP had made... We've tried to teach him to use the quote button but he hasn't quite picked it up yet

lol :p :p :p :Dbanana

ChrisF202 · 08-13-2003, 12:51 PM

Dont the Russians have a newer tank; the T-90 or something?

bigross86 · 08-13-2003, 12:53 PM

Quote:

You should all read Kahalani's "Heights of Courage" about Valley of Tears battle on the Golan in 73. He brings up all the points raised, though in the context of heavily outnumbered, but better trained defenders with the high ground. He captures a commander's thinking and the inevitable confusion of battle.

I heard a rumor that he was the sole defender on the hill, jumping from tank to tank when he ran out of ammo or his tank was disabled. The Syrians were so scared of him they thought a whole brigade was up on the hill waiting for them.

ChrisF202 · 08-13-2003, 13:01 PM

one guy did that? was his name John Rambo?

markaspen · 08-13-2003, 13:03 PM

Quote:

I heard a rumor that he was the sole defender on the hill, jumping from tank to tank when he ran out of ammo or his tank was disabled. The Syrians were so scared of him they thought a whole brigade was up on the hill waiting for them.

Not quite. He had an understrength company. What he had going for him were superbly trained crews, ability to get off the first shot, and make it count, and the initiative expected of an Israeli tank crew. There was some tremendous luck too; single tanks arriving with ad-hoc crews just as someone gets knocked out. Being on the high ground, and having a anti-tank ditch in front helped too. In Hebrew the book is "Oz 77" his call sign on the radio net.

bigross86 · 08-13-2003, 13:07 PM

"Oz 77", or "Oz Shivim V'Sheva"? I also think that the stopping of the Syrians had something to do with Soviet doctrine. Secure an area than wait for reinforcements. If the Syrians wouldn't have waited, but kept up the attack for another 2-3 hours, they could have gone all the way down to Tel Aviv if they so desired.

ChrisF202 · 08-13-2003, 13:08 PM

thank god for those guys

markaspen · 08-13-2003, 13:16 PM

I think its Oz 77, with the numbers. The Syrians broke through in other sectors, and had they persued their gains in the south or at Nakekh, maybe they would have succeeded. But they weren't getting past Kahalni this time, he broke their attack. There were times they were mixing it up at 15 meters range. The Syrians had one big advantage too, they had IR capability that we didn't; the Israelis had a handful of IR binoculars to tell if they were being painted.

The other interesting story is of Force Tzvika. He was a reservist with 4-5 tanks on the TAPline road. They prevented an entire Syrian column from advancing towards Nafekh (Israeli HQ on the Golan.) Eventually he was whittled down to 1 tank and he was wounded 5 or 6 times. He later returned for the advance into Syria.

bigross86 · 08-13-2003, 13:16 PM

Who, the Soviets for having crappy doctrine and the Syrians for following it, the IDF reservists who arrived just in the nick of time, or both?

ChrisF202 · 08-13-2003, 13:28 PM

The IDF Reserves saved Israel in 1973, had the IDF not had so many or so well trained reserves Isral might not exist today.

bigross86 · 08-13-2003, 13:30 PM

I think today, over 30 percent of the people can be mobilized on 24 hours or less, and 60 percent within a week. (I heard these numbers a looooong time ago, so don't be surprised if they've changed or I've mistaken them...)

TNP · 08-13-2003, 16:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisF202

Dont the Russians have a newer tank; the T-90 or something?

Yeap, the T-90S is the latest version, this is the one being marketed.
China and Russia are also working on a new 'heavy caliber' tank,
with a 155mm barrel. But we dont know if Russia is actually going to
come out with its own version, the Chinese seem to be ahead in
their progress.

08-13-2003, 07:45 AM	#33 (permalink)
Stinger Contributor Join Date: 08-08-03 Posts: 714	Snipe was responding to a post about camo netting TNP had made... We've tried to teach him to use the quote button but he hasn't quite picked it up yet Edit: I go home as a Corporal I come back to work and I'm a Specialist... :-x __________________ Your look more lost than a bastard child on fathers day.

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08-13-2003, 12:51 PM	#35 (permalink)
ChrisF202 *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-12-03 Location: Long Island, New York, USA Posts: 2,593 Country:	Dont the Russians have a newer tank; the T-90 or something?

08-13-2003, 13:01 PM	#37 (permalink)
ChrisF202 *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-12-03 Location: Long Island, New York, USA Posts: 2,593 Country:	one guy did that? was his name John Rambo?

08-13-2003, 13:07 PM	#39 (permalink)
bigross86 401 Ikvot Habarzel *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-07-03 Location: Ra'anana, Israel Posts: 3,148	"Oz 77", or "Oz Shivim V'Sheva"? I also think that the stopping of the Syrians had something to do with Soviet doctrine. Secure an area than wait for reinforcements. If the Syrians wouldn't have waited, but kept up the attack for another 2-3 hours, they could have gone all the way down to Tel Aviv if they so desired.

08-13-2003, 13:08 PM	#40 (permalink)
ChrisF202 *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-12-03 Location: Long Island, New York, USA Posts: 2,593 Country:	thank god for those guys

08-13-2003, 13:16 PM	#41 (permalink)
markaspen Regular Join Date: 08-06-03 Posts: 51	I think its Oz 77, with the numbers. The Syrians broke through in other sectors, and had they persued their gains in the south or at Nakekh, maybe they would have succeeded. But they weren't getting past Kahalni this time, he broke their attack. There were times they were mixing it up at 15 meters range. The Syrians had one big advantage too, they had IR capability that we didn't; the Israelis had a handful of IR binoculars to tell if they were being painted. The other interesting story is of Force Tzvika. He was a reservist with 4-5 tanks on the TAPline road. They prevented an entire Syrian column from advancing towards Nafekh (Israeli HQ on the Golan.) Eventually he was whittled down to 1 tank and he was wounded 5 or 6 times. He later returned for the advance into Syria.

08-13-2003, 13:16 PM	#42 (permalink)
bigross86 401 Ikvot Habarzel *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-07-03 Location: Ra'anana, Israel Posts: 3,148	Who, the Soviets for having crappy doctrine and the Syrians for following it, the IDF reservists who arrived just in the nick of time, or both?

08-13-2003, 13:28 PM	#43 (permalink)
ChrisF202 *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-12-03 Location: Long Island, New York, USA Posts: 2,593 Country:	The IDF Reserves saved Israel in 1973, had the IDF not had so many or so well trained reserves Isral might not exist today.

08-13-2003, 13:30 PM	#44 (permalink)
bigross86 401 Ikvot Habarzel *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-07-03 Location: Ra'anana, Israel Posts: 3,148	I think today, over 30 percent of the people can be mobilized on 24 hours or less, and 60 percent within a week. (I heard these numbers a looooong time ago, so don't be surprised if they've changed or I've mistaken them...)

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