Major Question for You Experts - Page 5

**Shek** · 07-08-2005, 16:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wraith601

shek:

Will the 173rd still be in Italy in 2010? I know most of V Corps is coming back stateside and a SBCT is going over, but I haven't heard anything on the 173rd. Also, I assume the Army will leave at least a couple brigade sets prepositioned in Europe when the heavy forces leave.

173rd will remain in Italia.

**Shek** · 07-08-2005, 16:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VovaLee

Certainly It would be desirable that you have thrown the armies during a month.
But in a pentagon there are competent officers and they will not make such gift to Russia.

Keep hitting that crack pipe!

sniperdude411 · 07-08-2005, 18:29 PM

"Keep hitting that crack pipe!"

I don't get what you mean...

**Officer of Engineers** · 07-08-2005, 21:55 PM

Captain,

I just don't see the need to re-enforce the Poles defensively, at least not by ground forces. The Russians could not mount an effective invasion of Poland and the Poles would love to look for payback.

**Shek** · 07-08-2005, 22:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sniperdude411

"Keep hitting that crack pipe!"

I don't get what you mean...

He is smoking crack as part of his research into American deployment capabilities. That is why his numbers are so far off.

**Shek** · 07-08-2005, 22:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Captain,

I just don't see the need to re-enforce the Poles defensively, at least not by ground forces. The Russians could not mount an effective invasion of Poland and the Poles would love to look for payback.

Sir,
I was getting more at the operational level and the capability to forward deploy forces quickly rather than the strategic need for a defense of Poland.

**Officer of Engineers** · 07-08-2005, 23:04 PM

Captain,

Reading your replies, I'm getting the distinct feeling that Division is following the way of Corps in that in the near future, the only divisional level exercises would be map exercises (or computer wargames).

**Shek** · 07-08-2005, 23:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Captain,

Reading your replies, I'm getting the distinct feeling that Division is following the way of Corps in that in the near future, the only divisional level exercises would be map exercises (or computer wargames).

Sir,
With the UA concept, you'll have a train-deploy-recover cycle. The only way to really do this effectively at the installation level is to have your BDEs on different cycles so you don't run into range scheduling issues. This also means that you'll be putting together UAs from different installations for "division" sized UEs. Combine this with the fact that the CTCs can only handle BDE or BDE minus sized exercises, there won't be a lot of divisional level exercises. While I have never been assigned to a division sized element (in Italy, I was part of an airborne battalion with a BDE HQ and a 2 star command above that; at Fort Lewis, I was part of 2ID that is HQed in Korea, but we reported to I Corps instead of 2ID), I have never heard of div level exercises since the REFORGER days.

lemontree · 07-09-2005, 00:35 AM

Colonel sir/shek,
Off topic:
Do the NATO nations teach "withdrawal" as a subject in tactics in the army schools of instruction?

**Officer of Engineers** · 07-09-2005, 00:36 AM

You mean Fall Back In Order or a Bug Out?

troung · 07-09-2005, 02:21 AM

Question about blue on blue...

Poland uses scores of weapons which look rather alike to Russian equipment. Yes they have added in some new Western toys and conduct training but the bulk of the stuff looks Russian.

How much of a problem would that be with us there?

A PT-91 will probably look just like a T-72 from the air... there would probably be a good number of NATO planes of all types dropping bombs on oncoming Russians and the Polish armored units could look just like them...

lemontree · 07-09-2005, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

You mean Fall Back In Order or a Bug Out?

Yes sir, I mean't fall back in order.

**Officer of Engineers** · 07-09-2005, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemontree

Yes sir, I mean't fall back in order.

That was all we were doing during the Cold War. You ready for the documents, Captain? They should answer those questions for you.

**Shek** · 07-09-2005, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemontree

Yes sir, I mean't fall back in order.

Lemontree,
Doctrine is predominantly offensive, and I don't recall "retrograde" operations being taught, although there is doctrine on it. At the squad and platoon level, the most important battle drill is react to contact, which becomes squad/platoon attack or break contact. So, applying the battle drill on a larger scale, it's not a logical leap for company/battalion "retrograde" ops to be conducted. However, it is never trained.

**Officer of Engineers** · 07-09-2005, 09:43 AM

Shek,

Captain, you don't do this anymore?

07-08-2005, 21:55 PM	#64 (permalink)
Officer of Engineers *Military Professional* Moderator Scotch taster Join Date: 08-06-03 Posts: 16,554 Country:	Captain, I just don't see the need to re-enforce the Poles defensively, at least not by ground forces. The Russians could not mount an effective invasion of Poland and the Poles would love to look for payback. __________________ Chimo

07-09-2005, 00:35 AM	#69 (permalink)
lemontree Bandaid *Military Professional* Join Date: 10-04-04 Location: India Posts: 5,918	Colonel sir/shek, Off topic: Do the NATO nations teach "withdrawal" as a subject in tactics in the army schools of instruction? __________________ Cheers!...on the rocks!!

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07-08-2005, 18:29 PM	#63 (permalink)
sniperdude411 Thats me with my precious *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 02-06-05 Location: Lancaster PA, (Crystal Lake IL). Posts: 1,189	"Keep hitting that crack pipe!" I don't get what you mean...

07-08-2005, 23:04 PM	#67 (permalink)
Officer of Engineers *Military Professional* Moderator Scotch taster Join Date: 08-06-03 Posts: 16,554 Country:	Captain, Reading your replies, I'm getting the distinct feeling that Division is following the way of Corps in that in the near future, the only divisional level exercises would be map exercises (or computer wargames).

07-09-2005, 00:36 AM	#70 (permalink)
Officer of Engineers *Military Professional* Moderator Scotch taster Join Date: 08-06-03 Posts: 16,554 Country:	You mean Fall Back In Order or a Bug Out?

07-09-2005, 02:21 AM	#71 (permalink)
troung A Self Important *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-03-03 Posts: 4,268 Country:	Question about blue on blue... Poland uses scores of weapons which look rather alike to Russian equipment. Yes they have added in some new Western toys and conduct training but the bulk of the stuff looks Russian. How much of a problem would that be with us there? A PT-91 will probably look just like a T-72 from the air... there would probably be a good number of NATO planes of all types dropping bombs on oncoming Russians and the Polish armored units could look just like them...

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