Chino

Never noticed this thread before, for you've spelt Lion City as "Loin City"

I served as a conscript in the infantry for 2 years from 18 years old and then another 10 years as a reservist, going back for combat training once every year for about a 3 weeks a stretch. Served in the brigade and battalion S2 department and then later as a platoon runner, or radioman.

Troung you sound like you know Singapore very well - are you Singaporean?

I'm not sure I agree with your statement that we are very friendly with the Indonesians and only consider Malaysia as a threat. We are actually closer to the Malaysians culturally, historically and geographically - even though we sqabble all the time.

The only reason we are less concerned with Indonesia these days - as you stated correctly - is that Indonesia no longer has the means to attack us without suffering severe destruction of their forces whether they come by sea or air.

The nightmare scenario is that they join up with Malaysia to attack Singapore. And they have both conducted joint military excercise of which the "enemy" is very clearly Singapore. They conducted joint paratroop drops in Johore which is very close to Singapore some years ago - during our National Day celebrations.

Several units including the airforce were immediately put on high alert.

We have no choice but to keep spending heavily on defence to ensure our survival.

LongshotSNN

Isn't that a little dated? I remember reading Huxley, Andrew T.H Tan and other security researchers' work on the arms race in ASEAN during my second year for.

As for the topic itself, it depends on how you want to look at it. From a "teeth" POV, Singapore obviously has the edge, even if you want to match M60s against the Polish T-91s the M'sians are getting. Stick time for aircraft and quality goes to the Singaporeans as well, but by and large, I think it will be more of a insurgency/counter-insurgency conflict, with the M'sians in the jungles and Singaporeans having to control the urban centres around Johore and southern Pahang, which is probably about as far as they can go.

And on another hand, Malaysia's disparate fighter/attack aircraft presents serious logistical problems in the long run, plus there aren't any real armoured units on the Peninsular until those PT-91s come through, and only 48 of them.

But I seriously doubt about a conflict between M'sia and S'pore. So far there have been confidence-building measures, ie. Malaysia placing its ASTROS II launchers on the northern part of the Peninsular, plus the two subs going to East Malaysia. Singpaore's bi-lateral exercises with Indonesia are also mainly as a CBM, and given the recent muddle even to just patrol the Straits of Malacca to help combat piracy and maritime terrorism, I seriously doubt Indonesia's really that friendly.

Chino is quite correct about the state of the Indonesian airforce and navy though. God, did anyone see the state of the Indon patrol vessel during the tension on the Ambalat sea?

Chino

No, we do not have any M60's other than the M60 Combat Engineer Vehicle with a stubby demolition gun and dozer blade, and the M60 Armoured Vehicle Launched Bridge.

The only MBT we are supposed to have are 100 Tempest - basically upgraded Centurions armed with 105mm cannon.

Then of course we operate 350 obsolete (Indian and Israeli discarded) AMX-13 Light Tanks. 75mm cannon. I have no idea what purpose our AMX-13 serve as they can be easily destroyed by armoured-piercing .5 HMGs.

Both these tanks are 50 years old...

A tank on tank scenario against the PT-91 is not on the cards. Our F-16C/Ds and (in future) F-15Es will have anti-tank weapons. Also our Apache Longbows are also there for anti-tank purpose.
Any PT-91 that still survive will have to face a wide selection of infantry-operated anti-tank weapons including MILAN and Spike ATGMs. Finally we have light infantry anti-tank weapons like the 84mm Carl Gustav and the disposable Matador and Ambrust LAW.

platinum786

Singapore, jusging from what your saying would porbably be very weak against a barrage of missiles....

tkae out key targetsw and have a alrge enough airforce and hurting singapore would be quite easy....

lurker

"Singapore’s military capability is, by most measures, the most advanced in Southeast Asia"...

Nice. War is a complex military and economic procedure. Can Singapore sustain war? Blockade? Can it survive on internal resources?

10 megaton is equal to all the Singapore army.

Chino

10 megaton of what? Nuclear warhead?

Which one of Singapore's enemy has 10 megaton of nuclear explosives or whatever it is you are talking about?

C'mon, for the past 60 years the world had been continuously at war and NOT ONE TIME was a nuclear device ever used. So stop painting nuclear attack scenarios - that's so passé...

What blockade? Land blockade or sea blockade? Which one of Singapore's enemy is capable of blockading us from the sea?

Those who have the capability like the US, India or China, are fortunately, not our enemy at this point.

Jay

Malaysia or Indonesia who can mount that kind of attack is well with in the range of Singapore's Airforce. hey are the credible enemies and they dont have enough firepower to match Singapore.

It at all it matter, both Malaysia and Indonesia are muslim countries

__________________
A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!

troung

Nobody in the neigborhood has the fleet or air force to enforce a real blockade. Plus America doesn't like blockades and would not want one in that area at all. Then of course no one has nukes in that region.

But you need to have missiles and a larger air force to do that and swing first.

two-niner

Actually I hate to be a wet blanket, but there won't be any war or at least a long war or war of attrition in this region. For the simple reason of the important trade waterway shared between malaysia, indonesia and singapore.

During WWII the japanese wanted singapore because singapore sat smack in the center of critical waterway junction, from here they could control everything and anything. If they wanted to they could close the waterway to shipping and squeeze any number countries into submission.

In peacetime today one-third of the world shipping passes thru this waterway every single day approx every 2 minutes 1 merchant ship will arrive into our waters or around 800 merchant ships every day non-stop 365 days. This waterway is a lifeline not only for singapore but at least half a dozen other countries in the eastern region like vietnam, cambodia, korea, japan, taiwan and china.

Scenario
-----------
If war erupted because of water issues between singapore and malaysia, shipping rates will skyrocket and all merchant ships will bypass this area and take an extra 1000 mile route around indonesia or take 2-3 extra weeks to reach their intended destinations. All the countries in the region will be affected. China has only about less than 1 month oil reserves after that it's lights out.

All of them will send their armies here to disarm singapore and malaysia. And once here they won't leave why? Because like the japanese during WWII whoever controls this waterway controls everybody.

If china sent her armed forces here, taiwan, japan, korea and the americans will be greatlly alarmed because controlling the waterway from singapore you could effectively blockade your enemies, so thats why when they send their armed forces here to resolve our conflict nobody leaves. And if malaysia turns the water off, they will come here and turn it back on for us.

think abt it. The malaysians know it too, thats why we are not really afraid of anything.

Officer of Engineers

I hate to be a wet blanket to your wet blanket but if China can't send an army over to Taiwan, then how the hell do you expect her to ship an army over to Malaysia/Singapore?

__________________
Chimo

two-niner

how do you know what china can or can't do? In our region they have the most ships and undeniably they are a naval force and one thats growing/

And bearing in mind When china sends and army here it could be on the pretext of "peace keeping force" to resolve issues not an invasion force. But nobody trusts anybody so thats why they will all come as "peace keeping forces" they will disarm the conflict for us, turn the water back on for us and watch each other very carefully.

troung

You're missing the point.

China cannot bring a force to take over an island off their own coast. Singapore is to far.

__________________
To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

Officer of Engineers

Because I'm one of the founders and moderators of China-Defense.com, the largest English based PLA watcher forum on the internet. And the having most ship title belongs to the USN.

Where did you get this baloney? The largest single Peacekeeping force the PLA ever sent outside its borders is two engineering battalions (600 men) to Cambodia. They currently have one single engineering battalion (300 men) in Congo. If that is big enoug to overcome either Malaysia or Singapore, then I have some boy scouts who will kick your butts.

two-niner

If their 1 month oil reserves run out they will not come?

You are saying if taiwan, china, vietnam, japan, the koreas cambodia energy reserves and raw materials run out they will rather sit and wait in the dark to see what happens next while their economies crumble around them they will not come?

Ok let wait and see then.

Officer of Engineers

You don't get it. They CANNOT come no matter how much they want to.

Here's the thing you don't get. They don't have to come. Any threat to the sea lanes will be met and will be destroyed by the USN and without breaking a sweat. The USN can take on the entire region alone and blow all of them to smithereans. Now, why would China send an army when the USN is going to do all the work for them?