indian army vs american army - Page 27

The guy · 12-11-2005, 00:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sniperdude411

With the US's technology in weapons, explosives, tanks, and training (which is sadly declining a bit), India has no chance IMSUO.

Technology is only one factor of war take the Kosovo war for example the enemies concealed their tank by burning damp hay which creates small chards of material that jams laser and thermal readers. they also used decoys to run the Nato forces out of supplies which were already at low because plastic tanks were used with fuel buring at where the engine is placed on T-90 tanks making pilots aim for them and not the actual tanks which were T-72s most of these problem were fixed for the Iraq war

**Officer of Engineers** · 12-11-2005, 01:09 AM

You really don't know what happenned, do you? You cannot jamm lasers.

Blademaster · 12-11-2005, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

You really don't know what happenned, do you? You cannot jamm lasers.

You can't jam lasers sure but you can break the line of sight. Lasers need a clear line of sight to work. So using smokescreens would render lasers useless because the cloud scatters light into all directions. The lasing person or targeter would not be able to lock it in.

Ray · 12-11-2005, 02:44 AM

I cannot comment on military lasers, but here is an interesting article that is worth consideration.

Military lasers will obviously be more powerful and so one wonders if they can be jammed. I think it can't be, but then as I said, I have no idea.

Military laser and experiments I am sure are in the classified realm.

Quote:

Laser Veil

It’s no secret that police lasers can get confused. Generate enough ambient light and they can have some problems in picking out their own return signal from the clutter. An alternative strategy: find a way to reduce the amount of light reflecting back from a target. The laser has the same problem and needs more time to get a lock on the target, reducing range. That’s exactly the phenomenon Laser Veil ($99.95) seeks to exploit.

Laser Veil is a translucent bluish liquid intended to coat the reflective bits on a vehicle, in particular the headlights, fog lights, turn signal lights, license plate and any vertical brightwork capable of reflecting the laser beam. We have no idea what’s in this witch’s brew and after having worked on getting the formula exactly right for over a dozen years, its inventor is understandably reluctant to volunteer the information. We don’t blame him. And frankly, we really don’t care. Our only question is: Does it work?

Finding out wasn’t quite as straightforward a project as testing a laser jammer. First we had to spend some time carefully applying the substance. It comes with reasonably helpful directions, along with a paint brush and a painter’s foam applicator for the final finish. The directions caution against attempting the application in high ambient heat, cold weather, in direct sunlight or damp conditions. Violate this rule and the result can be a sagging, uneven coating that’s a bit, uh, aesthetically compromised.

Another consideration is transmissivity. Laser Veil definitely darkens the headlight lens and it sure seemed like the halogen lights in the oldest of the test cars were putting out less light than before. We didn’t run any tests to quantify the reduction in light output, though it doesn’t appear to be a major problem.

Some owners may get light-headed at the thought of painting part of the car with an unfamiliar liquid, a very understandable reaction on the part of, say, a guy who just laid out 175 large for a Ferrari. And we’ll have to admit that no matter how expert the application, the brush strokes remain visible.

On the plus side, it takes more than a hard rain to make Laser Veil wash off. Something on the order of a high-pressure car wash is required, and even that will work only after the coating has first been loosened with an application of ammonia or rubbing alcohol.

We tested Laser Veil on three test cars: a silver 2005 Corvette Z51 convertible, a 2003 BMW Z4 and the target car we’ve used in more tests than any other, a 1990 Honda CRX Si.

The first two vehicles were available only for short periods, meaning there wasn’t enough time to run each through a complete set of tests. That’s because when testing products like this, only one variable can change at a time. Then the entire battery of tests, using exactly the same procedures, must be re-run and the results recorded. Try changing more than a single parameter from one run to the next and you may as well throw the scores out the window. They’re worthless for before-and-after comparison purposes.

See our 2005 Laser Jammer Test: Part II for the complete test report, including additional Laser Veil test results for the Corvette and BMW, laser jammer and Laser Veil tests against the widely used European Riegl and Jenoptic lasers, plus an exclusive look at the ultimate in stealth motorcycles--a Honda CBR 1100XX superbike equipped with both a Blinder Xtreme M-20 laser jammer and Laser Veil.

Before we get into the test results, there’s more you should know about Laser Veil. Most important, it’s not designed to make your vehicle disappear from lasers. Laser Veil makes no such claims and they’re entirely honest when they say their product is intended to reduce the effective range of a laser, giving a driver additional time to react.

In particular the manufacturer touts Laser Veil’s potential to enhance the effectiveness of an active laser jammer. We’ve never seen an LED-based laser jammer that can’t be defeated; some are just better than others. Translation: if you get close enough to the laser and the officer continues to paint the entire vehicle, eventually he’ll get lucky. Only a dimwit will continue to target the front license plate or grille area after several attempts fail to produce a target speed. And most officers aren’t dimwits. They’ll automatically shift the point of aim to a headlight—and the complex, computer-designed headlight assemblies increasingly found on today’s cars make fabulous targets for lasers and radar alike.

But if the headlight for any reason isn’t available as a target—like the retracted headlights on some cars or a Laser Veil-coated headlight—options dwindle and more time is expended, giving the driver an edge.

For the record, we found that using Laser Veil with even a marginal laser jammer will enhance its performance. The magic coating even made a K40 Defuser Plus, unquestionably the least effective laser jammer on the market, look like it was dramatically chopping the range of some lasers. (It wasn’t the jammer, trust us; Laser Veil was doing all the work.)

We’ve tested dozens of products over the past 15 years that promised to defeat lasers, including another liquid anti-laser coating. None worked. So we were frankly skeptical about Laser Veil’s claims. But after spending three days testing it, on different cars, against different model lasers, with and without front license plates, plates with different degrees of reflectivity, you name it, we can offer some conclusions.

First, if you’ve got a highly reflective front plate (California’s is one of the best targets, Virginia and other states with light, highly reflective background colors work almost as well) you’ll have to cover it with a very darkly-Laser Veil-coated plastic cover. Even with every light on the front of the car Veil-coated, fail to protect the plate and you’re toast.

The plate cover we tested was dark enough that it’d be illegal in every state. But a semi-legible plate is an equipment violation, not a moving violation. One’s a simple, relatively inexpensive fine, the other can be a megabuck fine plus demerit points and insurance surcharges. And the possible loss of a driver license. You decide.

In states where front plates aren’t required, coating exposed lights with Laser Veil usually reduces maximum laser target range.

The Kustom Signals ProLaser III proved very tough to beat; the others were susceptible to varying degrees, some to a significant extent. Laser Veil alone chopped the range of the Riegl laser, for example, by fully 62 percent. When we added a BEL LaserPro 905 laser jammer, so far as the Reigl laser could tell, the car had simply disappeared. It drove right past without a speed ever appearing.

Review the test results below and form your own conclusions. But after 120-plus man-hours of testing it on a variety of vehicles, we can confirm that Laser Veil indeed cuts laser target-acquisition range, sometimes dramatically so. It’s not an all-purpose antidote for laser attacks; a few of the lasers were relatively unaffected in some circumstances. But hey, it’s not a perfect world. What we can say with assurance is that, particularly when used with a quality laser jammer, Laser Veil in most cases will buy you valuable extra time to react to a laser ambush.

http://www.radartest.com/article.asp?articleID=10056

**Officer of Engineers** · 12-11-2005, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blademaster

You can't jam lasers sure but you can break the line of sight. Lasers need a clear line of sight to work. So using smokescreens would render lasers useless because the cloud scatters light into all directions. The lasing person or targeter would not be able to lock it in.

Go to a light show or even a concert where they artifically generate smoke and watch the lasers cut through the smoke.

Samudra · 12-11-2005, 04:32 AM

I think Blademaster confused Lasers with IR beams ?

StrikeEagle · 12-12-2005, 00:39 AM

Indian military is way overrated. These are the same people who let the Chinese Commies raped them and they can barely handle Pakistan.

USA 120 > India 18

JG73 · 12-13-2005, 17:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Go to a light show or even a concert where they artifically generate smoke and watch the lasers cut through the smoke.

Excuse me Officer, but he's true. Even if the sky is to cloudy laser designator pods aren't able to point a target anymore. That's the reason why the newest guided bombs work more and more with a combination of laser guiding and GPS, because GPS is more independend of surrounding influences like clouds, smoke etc.
Iraqis for example burned oil springs so that the smoke made it impossible for the laser designator pods to point a target.

**Officer of Engineers** · 12-13-2005, 19:37 PM

Two different effects here. The laser pod cannot keep a lock simply because the targetteer can no longer see the target to keep the laser on it. There's nothing wrong with the laser itself.

**Parihaka** · 12-13-2005, 21:32 PM

I can take a blue saphire laser, point it at the moon on a cloudy day, and if I'm pointing it in the right direction and at the right time get it bounced back at me from one of the Apollo ALSEP experiments. Me and a lecturer mate from the Physics department at my old uni did it for fun.

JG73 · 12-14-2005, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Two different effects here. The laser pod cannot keep a lock simply because the targetteer can no longer see the target to keep the laser on it. There's nothing wrong with the laser itself.

You're right. Sorry Officer. I just overrread his post too fast.

**Shek** · 01-03-2006, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The guy

Technology is only one factor of war take the Kosovo war for example the enemies concealed their tank by burning damp hay which creates small chards of material that jams laser and thermal readers. they also used decoys to run the Nato forces out of supplies which were already at low because plastic tanks were used with fuel buring at where the engine is placed on T-90 tanks making pilots aim for them and not the actual tanks which were T-72s most of these problem were fixed for the Iraq war

There were no ground forces introduced by NATO, and President Clinton advertised this as not being a possibility. Put some SF teams on the ground and maneuver some forces, and the Serbian forces would have not longer been able to concentrate all their efforts on avoiding detection and destruction. Once they were flushed out of hiding, the kill rates would have skyrocketed.

12-11-2005, 01:09 AM	#392 (permalink)
Officer of Engineers *Military Professional* Moderator Scotch taster Join Date: 08-06-03 Posts: 17,064 Country:	You really don't know what happenned, do you? You cannot jamm lasers. __________________ Chimo

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Liberals Blame America for Nick Berg's Death	Leader	Political Discussions	43	08-20-2007 04:30 AM
Army budget woes	Shek	The War in Iraq	0	12-14-2006 12:59 PM
How clean is India?	Neo	Political Discussions	163	05-03-2006 19:09 PM
911 4 year anniversary...never forget.	Anon	Political Discussions	5	09-11-2005 12:07 PM
Topic For Hongkongfeuy	lemontree	Political Discussions	21	09-09-2005 02:15 AM

12-11-2005, 04:32 AM	#396 (permalink)
Samudra *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 09-01-04 Location: North London Posts: 4,430 Country:	I think Blademaster confused Lasers with IR beams ?

12-12-2005, 00:39 AM	#397 (permalink)
StrikeEagle Banished Join Date: 12-07-05 Posts: 16	Indian military is way overrated. These are the same people who let the Chinese Commies raped them and they can barely handle Pakistan. USA 120 > India 18

12-13-2005, 19:37 PM	#399 (permalink)
Officer of Engineers *Military Professional* Moderator Scotch taster Join Date: 08-06-03 Posts: 17,064 Country:	Two different effects here. The laser pod cannot keep a lock simply because the targetteer can no longer see the target to keep the laser on it. There's nothing wrong with the laser itself.

12-13-2005, 21:32 PM	#400 (permalink)
Parihaka Moderator Join Date: 11-10-04 Location: Te Ika a Maui Posts: 9,965 Country:	I can take a blue saphire laser, point it at the moon on a cloudy day, and if I'm pointing it in the right direction and at the right time get it bounced back at me from one of the Apollo ALSEP experiments. Me and a lecturer mate from the Physics department at my old uni did it for fun.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)