Type 90(Japanese) vs. Type 98(Chinese)

Praxus · 09-28-2003, 16:35 PM

Which do you think is better and why?

TYPE-90
http://globalsecurity.org/military/w...pan_4-line.gif
Specifications
CREW 3
MAX WEIGHT About 50t
LENGTH OVERALL About 9.80m
WIDTH OVERALL About 3.40m (skirt attaching)
HEIGHT OVERALL About 2.30m
GRADIENT 60%
MAX SPEED About 70km/h
ENGINE Liquid-cooled two-stroke 10-cylindered diesel engine
Max power 1,500PS/2,400rpm
ARMAMENT
- 120mm smooth bore gun 1
- 12.7mm (Cal. 50) heavy machine gun 1
- Type 74 7.62mm mounted machine gun

TYPE-98
http://sinodefence.com/army/tank/type98_1.jpg
Crew: 3
Weight: 50 tons
Engine: 1,200 hp liquid cooled diesel
Transmission: Mechanical, planetary
Track: Metallic with RMSh, with rubber-tyred road wheels
Suspension: Torsion bar
Radio: Receive/transmit, telephone, laser communications
Dimension: Length: 11.00 m; Height: 2.00 m; Width: 3.40 m
Cruising Range: 450 km, or 600 km with external tanks
Speed: Max road 65 km/h; max off-road 47 km/h; average cross-country 35 km/h; max swim N/A
Fording Depths: 5 m with snorkel
Main Gun: Indigenous 125 mm smoothbore
Rate of Fire: 8 rounds/min
Auxiliary Weapon: One coaxial 7.62 mm machine gun; one 12.7 mm air-defence machine gun
Fire Control: Laser rangefinder input, onboard computer, wind sensor, and control panel

**Officer of Engineers** · 09-28-2003, 22:24 PM

Two tanks from countries without tank warfare experiences. Does that tell you anyting?

Anon · 09-29-2003, 00:12 AM

When two tanks look close on paper, i'm giving the nod to the Western model.

axl · 09-29-2003, 01:55 AM

as both are comming from the eastern asia, i don't really see a western model here.

regards
axl

Anon · 09-29-2003, 04:48 AM

Look harder Axl.....

Praxus · 09-29-2003, 15:12 PM

The Japanese T-90 has the same 120mm gun as the Abrams and the Leo2A5.

axl · 09-30-2003, 02:15 AM

wrong. the 120mm smoothbore gun is based on the same design as the gun of leo2 (up to a5) and abrams from version a1. the gun is made in japan and modified to run an automatic loader. the abrams came out with a 105mm gun. only a1 and a2 are equipped with a 120mm one. it is again based on the german design but manufactured in the usa. and it has been modified, the breech is less complicated and the quality is lower.

regards
axl

**TopHatter** · 09-30-2003, 13:52 PM

I must say that the Japanese Type-90 looks a lot like an M1A1. My money is on the -90.

Praxus · 09-30-2003, 15:32 PM

Quote:

wrong. the 120mm smoothbore gun is based on the same design as the gun of leo2 (up to a5) and abrams from version a1. the gun is made in japan and modified to run an automatic loader. the abrams came out with a 105mm gun. only a1 and a2 are equipped with a 120mm one. it is again based on the german design but manufactured in the usa. and it has been modified, the breech is less complicated and the quality is lower.

I am well aware, but for all intensive purposes it's the same gun.

**Officer of Engineers** · 09-30-2003, 15:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TopHatter
I must say that the Japanese Type-90 looks a lot like an M1A1. My money is on the -90.

Mine would on the Chinese, not so much as it may or may not be a better tank but they have much more modern experience with land warfare and they know what they've done wrong in the past. Doesn't mean that they got it right this time but it does mean that they know some mistakes to avoid.

The same cannot be said of the Japanese land forces.

**TopHatter** · 09-30-2003, 16:26 PM

Agreed. Experience counts for a hell of a lot. OR if you have something like the NTC at Fort Irwin

That definitely helps too.

Praxus · 09-30-2003, 18:40 PM

Quote:

Mine would on the Chinese, not so much as it may or may not be a better tank but they have much more modern experience with land warfare and they know what they've done wrong in the past. Doesn't mean that they got it right this time but it does mean that they know some mistakes to avoid.

The same cannot be said of the Japanese land forces.

Most of the newer Chinese tanks are the Type 96, the Type 98 is not in mass production yet. Also the Japanese have around 900 Tanks the Chinese have well over 15,000, with most of them being well over 20-25 years old, the numbers are to much for the Japanese to handle exspecially when they lack experience and the heavy armour like on the M1A2 and the Leo2A6.

But if there were to be a war it would be the Chinese invading Japan, which would be a non-starter because the ammount of forces it would require, it would allow Taiwan to go TI and it would cause US intervention. Also on top of this they don't have the airlift and sealift as of yet.

I wouldn't say China is more experianced in Tank Warfare then Japan. Neither one has fought a modern tank engagment.

**TopHatter** · 09-30-2003, 18:51 PM

I think when we want to compare hardware we have a tendency to also interject the human factor into things, just as it should be.
On the other hand, what if these 2 tanks faced each other with equal crews? Or perhaps individually, each taking separate tests of various capabilities?

**Officer of Engineers** · 09-30-2003, 18:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Praxus
I wouldn't say China is more experianced in Tank Warfare then Japan. Neither one has fought a modern tank engagment.

Depends on what you mean by a modern tank engagement. Chinese tanks saw extensive action in the 79 Sin-VN War though as inf support and more than a few was on the wrong end of an RPG.

Chinese and VN tanks did saw action against one another though more of a one-on-one type deal and never en mass.

The PLA held a tank reserve against the Red Army during the Cold War. Their concept was to be the decisive force when the Red Army got exhausted over a stretched LOC.

So, yes, China is more experienced than Japan but nowhere near the Russians or the West.

Praxus · 09-30-2003, 19:31 PM

Yah, I get what your saying.

I just think that their experience is not that great and wouldn't be a decisive advantage in a war against the Japanese.

09-28-2003, 16:35 PM	#1 (permalink)
Praxus *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-26-03 Posts: 3,237	Type 90(Japanese) vs. Type 98(Chinese) Which do you think is better and why? TYPE-90 http://globalsecurity.org/military/w...pan_4-line.gif Specifications CREW 3 MAX WEIGHT About 50t LENGTH OVERALL About 9.80m WIDTH OVERALL About 3.40m (skirt attaching) HEIGHT OVERALL About 2.30m GRADIENT 60% MAX SPEED About 70km/h ENGINE Liquid-cooled two-stroke 10-cylindered diesel engine Max power 1,500PS/2,400rpm ARMAMENT - 120mm smooth bore gun 1 - 12.7mm (Cal. 50) heavy machine gun 1 - Type 74 7.62mm mounted machine gun TYPE-98 http://sinodefence.com/army/tank/type98_1.jpg Crew: 3 Weight: 50 tons Engine: 1,200 hp liquid cooled diesel Transmission: Mechanical, planetary Track: Metallic with RMSh, with rubber-tyred road wheels Suspension: Torsion bar Radio: Receive/transmit, telephone, laser communications Dimension: Length: 11.00 m; Height: 2.00 m; Width: 3.40 m Cruising Range: 450 km, or 600 km with external tanks Speed: Max road 65 km/h; max off-road 47 km/h; average cross-country 35 km/h; max swim N/A Fording Depths: 5 m with snorkel Main Gun: Indigenous 125 mm smoothbore Rate of Fire: 8 rounds/min Auxiliary Weapon: One coaxial 7.62 mm machine gun; one 12.7 mm air-defence machine gun Fire Control: Laser rangefinder input, onboard computer, wind sensor, and control panel Last edited by Praxus; 09-28-2003 at 16:39 PM..

09-28-2003, 22:24 PM	#2 (permalink)
Officer of Engineers *Military Professional* Staff Emeritus Scotch taster Join Date: 08-06-03 Posts: 22,567 Country:	Two tanks from countries without tank warfare experiences. Does that tell you anyting? __________________ Chimo

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09-29-2003, 00:12 AM	#3 (permalink)
Anon New Member Join Date: 08-03-03 Posts: 0	When two tanks look close on paper, i'm giving the nod to the Western model.

09-29-2003, 01:55 AM	#4 (permalink)
axl Patron Join Date: 09-18-03 Posts: 242	as both are comming from the eastern asia, i don't really see a western model here. regards axl

09-29-2003, 04:48 AM	#5 (permalink)
Anon New Member Join Date: 08-03-03 Posts: 0	Look harder Axl.....

09-29-2003, 15:12 PM	#6 (permalink)
Praxus *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-26-03 Posts: 3,237	The Japanese T-90 has the same 120mm gun as the Abrams and the Leo2A5.

09-30-2003, 02:15 AM	#7 (permalink)
axl Patron Join Date: 09-18-03 Posts: 242	wrong. the 120mm smoothbore gun is based on the same design as the gun of leo2 (up to a5) and abrams from version a1. the gun is made in japan and modified to run an automatic loader. the abrams came out with a 105mm gun. only a1 and a2 are equipped with a 120mm one. it is again based on the german design but manufactured in the usa. and it has been modified, the breech is less complicated and the quality is lower. regards axl

09-30-2003, 13:52 PM	#8 (permalink)
TopHatter Administrator Comrade Commissar Join Date: 09-03-03 Posts: 12,753 Country:	I must say that the Japanese Type-90 looks a lot like an M1A1. My money is on the -90.

09-30-2003, 16:26 PM	#11 (permalink)
TopHatter Administrator Comrade Commissar Join Date: 09-03-03 Posts: 12,753 Country:	Agreed. Experience counts for a hell of a lot. OR if you have something like the NTC at Fort Irwin That definitely helps too.

09-30-2003, 18:51 PM	#13 (permalink)
TopHatter Administrator Comrade Commissar Join Date: 09-03-03 Posts: 12,753 Country:	I think when we want to compare hardware we have a tendency to also interject the human factor into things, just as it should be. On the other hand, what if these 2 tanks faced each other with equal crews? Or perhaps individually, each taking separate tests of various capabilities?

09-30-2003, 19:31 PM	#15 (permalink)
Praxus *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-26-03 Posts: 3,237	Yah, I get what your saying. I just think that their experience is not that great and wouldn't be a decisive advantage in a war against the Japanese.

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