Type 90(Japanese) vs. Type 98(Chinese) - Page 4

axl · 10-04-2003, 07:05 AM

i do what? turbine? sorry, never. i'm not en engineer, but it is not difficult to see that an engine, which has it's best power in a high rpm level only, is not really useful for vehicles.
the abrams is nice in speeding up from zero, no question about it. cross country you will run pretty fast in problems, especially if you drive it a way you can go with the leopard 2: go fast, brake hard, move hard right and accelerate (just an example). the turbine is connected to a slow shifting automatic transmission. the result is that in case the rpm on the final drives drops (coz of braking), the transmission needs time to shift and brakes the turbine. turbines work only in a high rpm level. if that is not available it is just a pain in the a**.
i know, american tankers don't see it that way. there are again two reasons. first of all they don't know the difference. secondly they are trained to brake much earlier before they turn. like that the transmission has time to shift down. but you loose time. and slow targets are easier to hit.

regards
axl

ps: i'm european, here that all makes sense. if you have a desert, were you just move straigth on it makes no difference.

Praxus · 10-04-2003, 08:41 AM

His point was not that it can go really fast or that you can break easily but that it is a lot more silent then the equivilent Deisel Engine.

The M1 Abrams 1500 HP engine may burn a lot of JP-8 but it is also very silent and doesn't put up almost anything into the air that could give them away.

A Hybrid Electric Drive with a Gas Turbine would be awsome. You can run it on battery for 10 minutes while you sneak up on the enemy. You would be emmiting no heat, all the heat that would be there was the Gas Turbine cooling.

axl · 10-04-2003, 09:45 AM

i would not give too much on the silence. the thing with deep noice is that you may hear it, but you can't say what direction it is comming from. the noise depends also on how the driver is doing his job.
i may also add that alot of the noice a tank is producing comes from the tracks and the suspension system.

if you wanna look for the most silent tank available, look for the leclerc. the hyperbar engine is like the abrams turbine, but has a better power output. it needs also less fuel and has an apu included.

where you have the 10 minutes value from? sounds like that stupid discovery channel thing. there is no vehicle available with such a propulsion, so where is that value comming from? and have you ever seen a 60t vehicle "sneaking"?

regards
axl

Praxus · 10-04-2003, 10:00 AM

Actually it's the time that the FCS can run silent on Batteries so I was just guessing that an upscaled one in an Abrams would be able to do the same. So stop being a wise ass.

Actually the higher the frequency of a sound wave the harder it is to hear were it is coming from. Deisel has a lot lower frequency then what comes from a Gas Turbine.

It is not possible for a Deisel to be as quiet as a Gas Turbine.

axl · 10-04-2003, 10:20 AM

you know, i don't care what is actually possible or what not. come to france, start the leclerc and you will see (or better hear). oh yes, don't try to listen to an abrams before, just to be able to compare.

with the sound, just have a look on modern surround speakers. how many speakers do you have fo the bass?

regards
axl

Praxus · 10-04-2003, 10:43 AM

Quote:

with the sound, just have a look on modern surround speakers. how many speakers do you have fo the bass?

Lower Frequency waves will bend around or go through objects in their way. Where Higher Frequency waves will bounce off an object.

Since the Higher Frequency waves have a tendency to bounce off objects instead of going through or around the Higher Frequency waves are harder find were they came from then Lower Frequency waves.

Anon · 10-04-2003, 11:53 AM

"i do what? turbine? sorry, never. i'm not en engineer, but it is not difficult to see that an engine, which has it's best power in a high rpm level only, is not really useful for vehicles."

You do know what torque multiplication via gear reduction is, right?

Now you're trained on the LeClerk, Abrams and Leo II?

WHAT unit did you say you were with?

Your credibility is um, starting to come into question here man.

axl · 10-04-2003, 13:35 PM

sure i know what a gearbox can do. the m1 is normally equipped with a reduction gear, otherwise it would not be possible to use a turbine. but if a turbine is running into low rpm levels it is not able to produce much power. only because the abrams uses a turbine does not mean that it is the best solution.

never said that i trained on leclerc (named after General Leclerc and not LeClerk) nor what unit i'm with.

regards
axl

Praxus · 10-04-2003, 13:47 PM

His point was that you never told us your Unit, he want's to know it now.

If you never trained with the Leclerc, then what right do you have to comment about it?

axl · 10-04-2003, 14:05 PM

i got a very good introduction on it (practical) and used it in the simulator.
as you guys never trained on any modern tank...better don't come with such arguments.

regards
axl

Praxus · 10-04-2003, 14:07 PM

It's amazing how you keep avoiding the most important question.

What unit are you from????????????

axl · 10-04-2003, 14:36 PM

why is that such an important question? i have been assigned to several different units during my service time, now i'm not anymore in active service. you will not know them, they are not american.

regards
axl

Praxus · 10-04-2003, 16:25 PM

Oh tell us anyway, if you don't we'll take it as you admiting you were never in the Military.

axl · 10-04-2003, 17:37 PM

go on, play your childish game.

regards
axl

Praxus · 10-04-2003, 17:52 PM

How hard is it for you to answer the damn question???

10-04-2003, 08:41 AM	#47 (permalink)
Praxus *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-26-03 Posts: 3,237	His point was not that it can go really fast or that you can break easily but that it is a lot more silent then the equivilent Deisel Engine. The M1 Abrams 1500 HP engine may burn a lot of JP-8 but it is also very silent and doesn't put up almost anything into the air that could give them away. A Hybrid Electric Drive with a Gas Turbine would be awsome. You can run it on battery for 10 minutes while you sneak up on the enemy. You would be emmiting no heat, all the heat that would be there was the Gas Turbine cooling. Last edited by Praxus : 10-04-2003 at 08:48 AM.

10-04-2003, 10:00 AM	#49 (permalink)
Praxus *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-26-03 Posts: 3,237	Actually it's the time that the FCS can run silent on Batteries so I was just guessing that an upscaled one in an Abrams would be able to do the same. So stop being a wise ass. Actually the higher the frequency of a sound wave the harder it is to hear were it is coming from. Deisel has a lot lower frequency then what comes from a Gas Turbine. It is not possible for a Deisel to be as quiet as a Gas Turbine. Last edited by Praxus : 10-04-2003 at 10:03 AM.

10-04-2003, 13:47 PM	#54 (permalink)
Praxus *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-26-03 Posts: 3,237	His point was that you never told us your Unit, he want's to know it now. If you never trained with the Leclerc, then what right do you have to comment about it? Last edited by Praxus : 10-04-2003 at 13:54 PM.

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10-04-2003, 07:05 AM	#46 (permalink)
axl Patron Join Date: 09-18-03 Posts: 242	i do what? turbine? sorry, never. i'm not en engineer, but it is not difficult to see that an engine, which has it's best power in a high rpm level only, is not really useful for vehicles. the abrams is nice in speeding up from zero, no question about it. cross country you will run pretty fast in problems, especially if you drive it a way you can go with the leopard 2: go fast, brake hard, move hard right and accelerate (just an example). the turbine is connected to a slow shifting automatic transmission. the result is that in case the rpm on the final drives drops (coz of braking), the transmission needs time to shift and brakes the turbine. turbines work only in a high rpm level. if that is not available it is just a pain in the a**. i know, american tankers don't see it that way. there are again two reasons. first of all they don't know the difference. secondly they are trained to brake much earlier before they turn. like that the transmission has time to shift down. but you loose time. and slow targets are easier to hit. regards axl ps: i'm european, here that all makes sense. if you have a desert, were you just move straigth on it makes no difference.

10-04-2003, 09:45 AM	#48 (permalink)
axl Patron Join Date: 09-18-03 Posts: 242	i would not give too much on the silence. the thing with deep noice is that you may hear it, but you can't say what direction it is comming from. the noise depends also on how the driver is doing his job. i may also add that alot of the noice a tank is producing comes from the tracks and the suspension system. if you wanna look for the most silent tank available, look for the leclerc. the hyperbar engine is like the abrams turbine, but has a better power output. it needs also less fuel and has an apu included. where you have the 10 minutes value from? sounds like that stupid discovery channel thing. there is no vehicle available with such a propulsion, so where is that value comming from? and have you ever seen a 60t vehicle "sneaking"? regards axl

10-04-2003, 10:20 AM	#50 (permalink)
axl Patron Join Date: 09-18-03 Posts: 242	you know, i don't care what is actually possible or what not. come to france, start the leclerc and you will see (or better hear). oh yes, don't try to listen to an abrams before, just to be able to compare. with the sound, just have a look on modern surround speakers. how many speakers do you have fo the bass? regards axl

10-04-2003, 11:53 AM	#52 (permalink)
Anon New Member Join Date: 08-03-03 Posts: 1	"i do what? turbine? sorry, never. i'm not en engineer, but it is not difficult to see that an engine, which has it's best power in a high rpm level only, is not really useful for vehicles." You do know what torque multiplication via gear reduction is, right? Now you're trained on the LeClerk, Abrams and Leo II? WHAT unit did you say you were with? Your credibility is um, starting to come into question here man.

10-04-2003, 13:35 PM	#53 (permalink)
axl Patron Join Date: 09-18-03 Posts: 242	sure i know what a gearbox can do. the m1 is normally equipped with a reduction gear, otherwise it would not be possible to use a turbine. but if a turbine is running into low rpm levels it is not able to produce much power. only because the abrams uses a turbine does not mean that it is the best solution. never said that i trained on leclerc (named after General Leclerc and not LeClerk) nor what unit i'm with. regards axl

10-04-2003, 14:05 PM	#55 (permalink)
axl Patron Join Date: 09-18-03 Posts: 242	i got a very good introduction on it (practical) and used it in the simulator. as you guys never trained on any modern tank...better don't come with such arguments. regards axl

10-04-2003, 14:07 PM	#56 (permalink)
Praxus *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-26-03 Posts: 3,237	It's amazing how you keep avoiding the most important question. What unit are you from????????????

10-04-2003, 14:36 PM	#57 (permalink)
axl Patron Join Date: 09-18-03 Posts: 242	why is that such an important question? i have been assigned to several different units during my service time, now i'm not anymore in active service. you will not know them, they are not american. regards axl

10-04-2003, 16:25 PM	#58 (permalink)
Praxus *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-26-03 Posts: 3,237	Oh tell us anyway, if you don't we'll take it as you admiting you were never in the Military.

10-04-2003, 17:37 PM	#59 (permalink)
axl Patron Join Date: 09-18-03 Posts: 242	go on, play your childish game. regards axl

10-04-2003, 17:52 PM	#60 (permalink)
Praxus *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-26-03 Posts: 3,237	How hard is it for you to answer the damn question???

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