Type 90(Japanese) vs. Type 98(Chinese) - Page 2

**Officer of Engineers** · 09-30-2003, 20:32 PM

It's a moot point. They'll never meet in battle.

Like I said, two tanks from countries without tank warfare experience, and the number of countries lining up to buy them should tell you what others think of these tanks.

**Officer of Engineers** · 10-01-2003, 00:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TopHatter
I think when we want to compare hardware we have a tendency to also interject the human factor into things, just as it should be.
On the other hand, what if these 2 tanks faced each other with equal crews? Or perhaps individually, each taking separate tests of various capabilities?

On whose playing field? The Chinese or the Japanese?

I can skewed the tests one way or the other (and have done it in the past).

axl · 10-01-2003, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TopHatter
I must say that the Japanese Type-90 looks a lot like an M1A1. My money is on the -90.

are you sure that you are not mixing that up with the k1? the type 90 looks like the older leo2, as germany helped with the development of the type 90.

Quote:

Originally posted by Praxus
I am well aware, but for all intensive purposes it's the same gun.

sorry, but i experienced the difference between m1a1 and leo2a4 i don't say anymore that it is the same. it has the same caliber and can fire the same ammunition, but that's it. if i have to boresight the gun every 6-8 rounds i would never say the gun is equal to the german one.

Quote:

Originally posted by Praxus
Most of the newer Chinese tanks are the Type 96, the Type 98 is not in mass production yet.

how much tanks do you need for mass production? they are fielded with several units and the second version is now in service. what you want more?

Quote:

Originally posted by Praxus
when they lack experience and the heavy armour like on the M1A2 and the Leo2A6.

do you wanna make me think both mentioned tanks have the same armour? do you know that the concept behind both is completely different?

regards
axl

Praxus · 10-01-2003, 08:07 AM

Quote:

sorry, but i experienced the difference between m1a1 and leo2a4 i don't say anymore that it is the same. it has the same caliber and can fire the same ammunition, but that's it. if i have to boresight the gun every 6-8 rounds i would never say the gun is equal to the german one.

I'll take your word for it, because you have FAR more experience then I in the matter.

So what we did was take the German design and then simplified it, so it can be more reliable or something?

Quote:

do you wanna make me think both mentioned tanks have the same armour? do you know that the concept behind both is completely different?

The Armour on the Leo2A6 and the M1A2 are a lot thicker and are a lot less seseptiple to penetration compared to the Type-90. That is the point I was trying to make. I was not saying they have the same concept in armour protection.

But I would like to know what are the different concepts?

Quote:

how much tanks do you need for mass production? they are fielded with several units and the second version is now in service. what you want more?

http://sinodefence.com/army/tank/type98.asp
"A small number in service with the Army for trial and tests. Mass production expected to begin in 2002 to 2004."

**TopHatter** · 10-01-2003, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Officer of Engineers
On whose playing field? The Chinese or the Japanese?

I can skewed the tests one way or the other (and have done it in the past).

On an international proving ground, kind of like the Olympics. Yes, I know there are ample opportunities for favoritism and whatnot, but it would be far better than a strictly Chinese or Japanese proving ground.

Praxus · 10-01-2003, 10:17 AM

The Chinese would just pay off the French to give them more points:D

axl · 10-01-2003, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Praxus
I'll take your word for it, because you have FAR more experience then I in the matter.

So what we did was take the German design and then simplified it, so it can be more reliable or something?

they simplified, yes, especially the breech. but something went wrong with the connection between fcs and gun, therefore they have to boresight the brams all the time. there are also reports about defects in the material on the m1a2. but thats just a rumour.

Quote:

Originally posted by Praxus

The Armour on the Leo2A6 and the M1A2 are a lot thicker and are a lot less seseptiple to penetration compared to the Type-90. That is the point I was trying to make. I was not saying they have the same concept in armour protection.

But I would like to know what are the different concepts?

the additional armour of the a5 is an empty triangle added to the turret front. it consists of at least two plates and there is no filling inside. when an apfsds round penetrates it the armour is overstressing is. against shaped charges it is the long stand off range that affects the penetration. afterwards the leo2a5 has the "normal" composite or whatever type basic armour as older versions.

regards
axl

**TopHatter** · 10-01-2003, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Praxus
The Chinese would just pay off the French to give them more points:D

And the Japanese would pay off the Americans? :D

bigross86 · 10-01-2003, 11:36 AM

No the ***'s would threaten to pull off a realistic Pearl Harbor reenactment

**TopHatter** · 10-01-2003, 11:42 AM

D'oh! Now now, let's all remember that the surprise attack makes the most military sense.

bigross86 · 10-01-2003, 11:44 AM

I think it works better if you let them know it's coming, but don't tell them when. It wears down the troops, hurts morale and fatigues everyone. Staging dummy raids helps.

**TopHatter** · 10-01-2003, 11:52 AM

Hm, perhaps but strategic and tactical surprise will gainsay you much more than just tactical surprise.
(We better take this discussion elsewhere so we don't hijack the thread :ermm )

bigross86 · 10-01-2003, 13:07 PM

Right. You wanna start the thread? I've got to go do some errands

**TopHatter** · 10-01-2003, 13:55 PM

Done. It's under Military History.

**Officer of Engineers** · 10-01-2003, 21:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TopHatter
On an international proving ground, kind of like the Olympics. Yes, I know there are ample opportunities for favoritism and whatnot, but it would be far better than a strictly Chinese or Japanese proving ground.

You mean bring back the Canadian Trophy? Won't work - front line unit dependent. Both the Chinese and the Japanese would be killed by every NATO nation out there. It would be a competition of who wouldn't be in last place.

09-30-2003, 20:32 PM	#16 (permalink)
Officer of Engineers *Military Professional* Moderator Scotch taster Join Date: 08-06-03 Posts: 15,915 Country:	It's a moot point. They'll never meet in battle. Like I said, two tanks from countries without tank warfare experience, and the number of countries lining up to buy them should tell you what others think of these tanks. __________________ Chimo

10-01-2003, 11:36 AM	#24 (permalink)
bigross86 401 Ikvot Habarzel *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-07-03 Location: Ra'anana, Israel Posts: 3,148	No the ***'s would threaten to pull off a realistic Pearl Harbor reenactment __________________ You're a naughty girl, go to my room!

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10-01-2003, 10:17 AM	#21 (permalink)
Praxus *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-26-03 Posts: 3,237	The Chinese would just pay off the French to give them more points:D

10-01-2003, 11:42 AM	#25 (permalink)
TopHatter Administrator Join Date: 09-03-03 Location: Fort Myers FL Posts: 9,693 Country:	D'oh! Now now, let's all remember that the surprise attack makes the most military sense.

10-01-2003, 11:44 AM	#26 (permalink)
bigross86 401 Ikvot Habarzel *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-07-03 Location: Ra'anana, Israel Posts: 3,148	I think it works better if you let them know it's coming, but don't tell them when. It wears down the troops, hurts morale and fatigues everyone. Staging dummy raids helps.

10-01-2003, 11:52 AM	#27 (permalink)
TopHatter Administrator Join Date: 09-03-03 Location: Fort Myers FL Posts: 9,693 Country:	Hm, perhaps but strategic and tactical surprise will gainsay you much more than just tactical surprise. (We better take this discussion elsewhere so we don't hijack the thread :ermm )

10-01-2003, 13:07 PM	#28 (permalink)
bigross86 401 Ikvot Habarzel *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-07-03 Location: Ra'anana, Israel Posts: 3,148	Right. You wanna start the thread? I've got to go do some errands

10-01-2003, 13:55 PM	#29 (permalink)
TopHatter Administrator Join Date: 09-03-03 Location: Fort Myers FL Posts: 9,693 Country:	Done. It's under Military History.

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