bigross86

Being that we're comparing other tanks can anyone post figures and data as to the performances of these two tanks?

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Lunatock

Off the top of my head. Abrams would have a hell of a time trying to slug it out with Merkavas in Israel Cities. Those streets are awfully narrow.

Think Kelly's Heroes, when the Sherman was behind the Tiger Tank.

TopHatter

One thing I love about the Merkava is that compartment in the rear of the tank. Dead useful for all sorts of mischief, especially in MOUT ops.

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bigross86

'Tock, what about out in the open? I heard the the Merkava Mk IV even has an air conditioner so the troops dont get exhausted and tried out from the heat of a steel coffin on wheels (as Snipe so lovingly calls them...)

Anon

Most modern western tanks have air conditioning(it's part of the NBC system).

The infantry compartment in the Merkava is it's greatest asset, to me at least.

Good tank, but i don't know that it's protected to the level the M-1A2SEP, Challenger II and Leopard 2 are.

Praxus

I think on the top armour it is more protected then the Abrams, but elsewhere there is less then Abrams, I may be wrong through.

TopHatter

From what I understand, the design of the Merkava had 1 overriding priority: the safety of the crew. Everything was designed to protect Israel's most precious commodity: Her soldiers.

Officer of Engineers

Except that they went the wrong way.

They didn't bother to look up WWII answers which was to get out of the friggin tank. The Middle East should not be the examples for MOUT. Grozny should be the modern example where mines, booby traps, and elvated heavy ATGMs dominated the battlefield.

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bigross86

It seems that most battles will be fought out in the open, not in cities. The Negev, Golan, and Judea/Samaria are probably going to be the battlefields. The Arabs don't wanna get bogged down in urban warfare.

TopHatter

I would submit that MOUT warfare is ONLY place the Arabs can succeed. After all, there is enough destroyed Arab equipment littering the Middle East to show that conventional warfare is a bad idea when taking on Israelis or the Western Allies.

Officer of Engineers

And you would be wrong.

The cities in the Middle East ain't built to the same standards as the West, mainly due to the lack of an ice belt. Houses and buildings ain't built to keep out cold and hence, a natural barrier for alot of fragmentation and bullets.

Plus, no large sewer system that has to be big enough and deep enough to avoid freezing in the winter. Such systems are also natural secured LOCs against bombing and even some bunkers at juncture points.

Their buildings would collapse with much more ease and therefore would not serve as ideal bunkers unlike those of Stalingrad or Berlin.

TopHatter

Perhaps I should clarify my opinion.
In a comparison between city-fighting and open area warfare, the Arab will have a great advantage. It may not be enough of one to win, but he certainly has a great advantage in the city then conventional warfare. As you pointed out, he won't enjoy the same advantages as the Russian in Stalingrad for example, but he still stands a better chance in the city.

axl

nearly no western tank has an air condition. the latest leclerc has it and also the leo2a6 for spain and greek will get it. the nbc protection systems are mainly overpressure systems which simply pump filtered air inside the tank.

the compartment at the merks rear i nice, yes. but it is extremely small, has no seats and or places for personal gear. in addition it reduces the ammunition load if somebody is carried here. so don't overestimate it.

regards
axl

TopHatter

oh it's utility is certainly limited. This is an MBT, not an IFV of course. On the other hand, it does make for some interesting possibilities that are not available on other MBTs

Praxus

Please tell me, where in the history of the Merkava tanks were their long lasting tank battles and when they were far enough from Israel were they couldn't get rearmed.