Prosto ILya

I do not know German language well enough to read Guderian “Memoris of a soldier” in original. However, I read in translation about “superiority of T-34”.

(note: That does not mean, that I imply T-34 was indestructible juggernaut made of adamantine.)

“After few defeats” – I mean Nazi defeats in East Front. Not Guderian personally.

Anon

" the T-34 is a much more capable tank than the Panther"

Well now that's an interesting statement of fantasy.

Prosto ILya

No more fantasy, than statements about T-34 as a lousy and useless machine.

Anon

Well i agree with you there.

FlyingCaddy

Im sorry I just get really upset when Guderian is brought up, Hiotler was an A hole for removing him from command. Also after Guderian was sacked the Russians started suing the T-34 in proper tank tactics because they bagan to get them in sufficent numbers, early on in the Great PAtriotic War the Russians used the T-34s like the Germans used thier navy, one unit going out to reak havoc.

Dima

well, think about it, simpler than the Panther, cheaper, more rugged and reliable, also, also, it's armour wasn't that bad, and it's main gun was average

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Metak

I've used RPG's in Croatia once and Kosovo numerous times

Anon

"well, think about it, simpler than the Panther, cheaper, more rugged and reliable, also, also, it's armour wasn't that bad, and it's main gun was average"

The Panther D had equal mobility, superior armor, and a far superior gun. The Nazi 75mm gun was actually more powerful in the AP role than the legendary 88mm was. The subsequent Panther A had even better armor, and was more reliable.

The Panther G was the best tank of the war, and is the fore-runner of the modern MBT. The perfect blend of mobility, protection, and armor.

Dima

Nazi 75mm gun, and 88mm ,are you referring to the T-35 85? with the 85mm gun, or the original with the 76.2mm gun

more reliable, NO, not more reliable than the T-34, which was legendary for its reliability, they also noted that it had better reliability because of its widened tracks, i'll have to read up a bit on this though

you got a good site for me?

leib10

The Panther, properly commanded and employed, could outfight any tank during WWII, even the superheavy IS-2 tanks the Soviet Union fielded late in the war. It was the perfect blend of firepower, mobility, and protection. Its armor thickness was about the same as the infamous Tiger's, and it was also well sloped to deflect incoming AP rounds. It could roar along at a good 50 km/hr on roads, and its interleaved wheels gave it the best ride of any German tank of the war. Its 700 hp Maybach engine gave it excellent cross-country performance, as did its wide tracks. As Sniper stated, its 75mm gun was excellent, and could penetrate 120mm of sloped armor plate at 1000m, easily taking on almost all Allied tanks at ranges that Allied gunners had little chance of knocking out the German tank.

Its only problem was its complexity and the fact that there simply weren't enough of them. Germany produced about 5000 of them (a remarkable fact considering what was happening to their factories), whereas tens of thousands of T-34's and Shermans were produced. Although superior to both tanks in almost every way, in the end, numbers counted the most.

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Prosto ILya

Super heavy IS-2 appeared on the battlefield in December 1943. Since 1944 IS-2 created with front part similar to modernized T-34. He possessed 122mm gun. IS-2 could not outfit Panther? Hardly.
About T-34. Early models of T-34 ,of course, were much easier to destroy. However later models such as T-34 -85 was much more reliable and powerful than older versions of T-34. “Superiority” has nothing to do with this. Panther was superior to T-34 in the first part of War and in those days great numbers of T-34 did not save much of our solders from nazi guns. Later situation changes.

Shuriff

Is-2 in reality was a VERY hard target for Panter - but so was tiger for t34/85 - these tanks just belong to different categories, its quite strange to compare them in the end.

Now on the T34/85 vs Panther. I've read an article from man who operated both of them. In fact, he has first operated T34/76, then was brought to captured Panther, and finally left Panter for a T34/85.

The main idea - Panther is a mediocre tank with awful chassis, good gun and superior optics. If could be used as an effective TD (in case in does makes it to the battlefield in time), but as a TANK - much worse then T34/85.

Shuriff

Yes, I'd probalby agree that. How the heck does this makes Panter better tank?

Man, its' just laughable. This again does not makes Panther any good tank. Besides, in 41 we've lost several hundreds T34s for exactly the same reasons. So what?

Shuriff

Oh, and another thing - on the original photo of a stuck tank - its a T34-57 - in fact a TD in T34 chassis. Thay were produced in limited numbers till midwar.

To be more specific, this is a photo of a destroyed tank of major Lukin, Hero of the Soviet Union, KIA in 1941 during the battle for Moscow (in that very tank). They've fought quite succesfully, but in the end, there were too few of them at the moment.

Prosto ILya

http://www.battlefield.ru/t34_57.html



Same picture – different angle.
Last fight майора Лукина.