Officer of Engineers

**** Groan ****

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Chimo

sourkraut115

while I have a great deal of respect for special operators, and believe they play a crucial role in CT and COIN operations, I tend to be an old fashioned conventional forces fan myself; I don't blame the operators for all of the Hollywood fanfare, but I think they would be the first to note that without conventional forces (both maneuver and support units) to do the dirty, long-term, and often dull work that wins wars, there would be little point in special operations units.

I do like the idea of giving conventional infantry units, and junior leaders, more chance to use initiative and become self-reliant in the manner of SF units (if not to that extreme).

On the police side, I know that SWAT is very exciting, but who ever saw a SWAT guy take a larceny from auto report, or break up a domestic? I regard that as more realistic police workthan taking doors. They do, however, serve a very useful purpose on those few occasions that they are really needed.

7thsfsniper

Wow. I guess I haven't seen this thread since its been dead for almost a year. Well, to be honest, it is difficult for me to give an unbiased opinion, since well, everyone knows that US Army Green Beret is the one and only original and that among those 7th group is the absolute tops!!

I could go on all day about this and comment on what I have read so far. In one of the earlier posts the topic was Delta Force. I can't say exactly what their role is today because even my old job is not the same as it was 20 years ago. The way I hear it now a lot has changed and there are way more of us than used to. When I talked to the recruiter last they are now letting spec4s in. In my day you had to be an NCO E-5 or above. I also read an article on SOF recently where GBs now fall under socom and are actually getting phased out. Pity! IMO it is an example of political correctness, you know, lower the curve so everyone can make an "A".

I have an old friend who was a LTC in delta and was on the Iranian hostage rescue mission (Eagle Claw). He has some interesting stories. He was also one of the reasons I chose my path. He actually went to high school with my father and afterwards He went to the Army and My Dad went Navy.

I would contribute this tidbit though, and a little research may net you some amzing facts. IMO, the warsaw pact nations as a whole, esp Russia and Poland, focus on strict martial discipline. Thier training can be brutal and I think it makes them very tough in a direct contact situation. Thier H2H skills are superb and they have almost a scary determination to them. I've seen it.

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"Moral courage is the most valuable and usually the most absent characteristic in men."- General George S. Patton, Jr

sourkraut115

I will agree that accepting recruits straight out of basic into "special forces" seems like a bad idea. I can understand doing this for the Ranger battalions, which are essentially elite conventional forces, but SF units operate in a very different environment. While some highly motivated individuals have presumably done pretty well going directly into SF, I really think that a disservice is done to these men by not giving them time to learn how a conventional war is fought and how regular units operate. Send the super-motivated recruits to the Rangers and to conventional airborne/air assault/light infantry units, then choose candidates for SF once they've demonstrated competence and motivation for four years (and cleaned a latrine or three for humility). Then again, I'm probably jealous of the beards and ball caps.

7thsfsniper

I couldn't agree with you more. I was young and moved very quickly into rank. I was super motivated, very smart, could do anything but follow orders. I was very immature and it resulted in my getting out instead of retiring in '05 like I planned. I know I wasn't the only one with this kind of story and it seems the Army went even further in the wrong direction in this respect. We had a lot of people drop after getting assigned at that time. HMM??

yasirkarim

I think Afghan people are best fighters,without any proper training they are fighting world third superpower, ( After Britain & Russia ).

Knaur Amarsh

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Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present - Marcus Aurelius Antoninus (Meditations)

bengalraider

could you quit comparing the taliban and al-qaeda ( i know most of al-qaeda is arab) fighters to actual special ops forces , by doing so you are insulting all countries special ops .

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"The world's biggest power is the youth and beauty of a woman."-chanakya
"Even if a snake is not poisonous, it should pretend to be."-chanakya

24RIMA

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7thsfsniper

Thanks BR, I appreciate your POV on this!

24RIMA

I have always admire the US for what they did on the Beach of Normandy 1944. You guys are the best in the field, I mean it.

7thsfsniper

Thanks for the grats to our boys that gave all on your soil in the name of freedom. Some Americans feel the French have forgotten the sacrifice. Good to hear from you on that. I have three great uncles that I never knew because they thought your freedom was as important as thiers and mine. Let us remember and honor them and lest we forget thier cause. Welcome to the WAB my friend!

24RIMA