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Old 05-22-2008, 05:05 AM   #31 (permalink)
el_guapo
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Join Date: 06-20-07
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Originally Posted by vannor View Post
Jello,...

I think that wheels would be far superior to legs. Constant contact with a surface allows for more control and greater strenth. The "Big Dog" project is amazing. However, if we have the capability, why not replace the "feet" of the "Big Dog's legs" with wheels. The wheels in a locked position would be just as good a "feet" and could still be used for flatter surfaces.

Though , now that I think about this, wheeled feet would be quite an engineering problem.

Well like I said, legs have a niche place when you think about it. It would make bit more sense to have legged machines in enviroments such as jungle enviroments, where logged trees can get in the way, where tight turns are needed. Walking like people, or animals for example. Now if you talking about like Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back type of vehicles, the ADDT, well it doesn't really provide any advantages. Too much of a niche for any military in general to invest in as it won't be used much in a general conflict.
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:53 AM   #32 (permalink)
FOG3
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Join Date: 05-04-06
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Originally Posted by el_guapo View Post
Ever heard of the Big Dog by Boston Dynamics?
The truck right? The one there was an RFP for but never went into real production because we pulled out of Vietnam?

*Looks it up* Oh that thing. Why didn't you say the legged prototype proposal for the MULE project? You do realize that there are other propositions ready for testing, right? As a matter of fact I'm pretty sure the legged proposal is the one that is not favored over the other options put out there in response to that project. This for instance doesn't even really deign to mention that thing.

Honestly, why would anyone in their right minds pay for a robotic mule that makes that much noise, anyway? You might as well erect a moving neon sign with "shoot me" on it.

The Lockheed entry to the MULE project is coming right along. Heres's a video and article. Here's some pictures/artwork. By all means defend the position that the Boston Dynamics entry is somehow superior to Lockheed's 6 wheeled entry.

At the very least you could have brought up an actual product such as Deere's six legged guy, instead of just a proof of concept. Of course the methodology on that guy is to avoid crushing little trees, because it gives the option of where it applies the pressure.

I believe you were saying something about me not knowing my stuff? I must say that you seem less then aware of the overall projects and purposes.

Quote:
I don't get the sense you know what you are talking about as far your views on legged locomotion versus other traditional ones.
Legged is the traditional one. I hand you a pack guess what you're carrying that with? Honestly, don't play the "they're different so they violate laws that exist because they aren't violated" stick. It adds nothing of substance.

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Not all animals are small. Ever heard of a elephant? Ever heard of dinosaurs? Heh.
Ever heard of them doing the mountain goat thing? Thought not. You actually have an argument or do you think acting like a smartass is going to get you somewhere?

Quote:
What about ditches, and stairs? Lol.
So you don't believe me when I say properly designed ground vehicles can handle those just fine? I hope you appreciate the irony that it was you that first accused someone of not being aware of things:

Meet SWORD the little military robot that could.
Meet Crusher the UGV truck that could.

For that matter what makes you think legged is worth anything with ditches? Tanks originally were designed to handle those hazards, basically creating a bridge in the process. A legged vehicle is going to do what given it is almost guaranteed to be to heavy to jump?

Quote:
You are saying hills? My lord. Legs can negotiate much more complex terrain than slopes, or hills. You saying a wheeled vehicle can climb almost vertical cliffs like a mountain goat?
Really? Show me anything establishing a mountain goat does vertical cliffs, instead of tight roads. Further establish this is implementable with multiton legged vehicles instead of organisms under 100 pounds. Your comparable vehicle is the SWORD. Of course, Crusher does do near vertical slopes.

Quote:
Vehicles are useless in certain mountaineous regions in Afghanistan. Ever heard of Soviet invasion of Afghanistan? When did you ever hear of military vehicles climbing mountains?
Ever heard of an animal in even the remotely close weight category attempting such? There are size and weight issues when trying to do that stuff. Hence Hummers can go where other vehicles wouldn't dare, such as basically climbing mountains.

Quote:
What military uses SP artillery for mountain warfare?
What mountain has paths for large vehicles? Especially as legged vehicles tend to be more splayed out then wheeled in reality they would have less access just due to the number of roads wide enough. So actually you're shooting yourself in the foot here from my perspective as your proposition simply makes issues worse.

By all means put up something establishing it doesn't have to with size of the roads, but instead the vehicles performance specs. Especially as towed means the arty is on wheels being pulled by something that probably does have wheels like a Hummer. That's of course assuming you arent down to mule trails at which point the whole "I'll solve the problem with legs" seems so absurd I doubt you'd advocate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by el_guapo View Post
Well like I said, legs have a niche place when you think about it. It would make bit more sense to have legged machines in enviroments such as jungle enviroments, where logged trees can get in the way, where tight turns are needed.
How does a legged vehicle turn tightly? You have the legs splayed out so it's wider to begin with usually, and that manner of turn is a rather complex maneuver that could be messed up by damage to any of the legs. A tracked vehicle basically just involves slamming the operating rods in opposite directions. Wheeled vehicles can basically do the same with a little room and several small maneuvers.

Plus that splayed out design makes it more prone to getting caught in obstacles leading to more have to be cleared to create a path. Unless you're proposing the main chassis doesn't exist, thereby making it a pointless set of legs, you do have to create a path at least large enough to fit the chassis through either way. All that being more difficult as a legged vehicles inability to roll makes it much less capable of just muscling through stuff with its sheer weight and momentum like conventional vehicles.

The original truck I mentioned from the Vietnam era was intended for swamps, but it never really saw service, and there are actually proven ways to deal with that are faster and more reliable. Flotation based systems will stay on top of the water no matter how deep, leg based require being able to touch bottom.

Last edited by FOG3 : 05-22-2008 at 12:49 PM.
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