Officer of Engineers

Yarn as in a ball of yarn - too much work to do anything with it. In short, long winded platitudes about how bad things are but that's about it.

This was 1987. India was considered Soviet bloc (whether you are or not is not the point, you're considered Soviet bloc). China was a defacto US ally.

And Moscow was extremely busy in Afghanistan.

India would have been on her own.

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Chimo

kuku

What a mess of a neighborhood.

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cheers

Ray

It made a material difference in Kargil that the US did not side with Pakistan as it did always in Indo Pak conflicts.

In fact, the US was definitely of the opinion that Pakistan has violated!

If it ever came to India vs China, the US will always be on India's side, directly or indirectly since it is the bulwark against China and hence a natural ally to contain the galloping march of China and its narrowing the gap between the US and China.

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"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

Yusuf

This was 1987. India was considered Soviet bloc (whether you are or not is not the point, you're considered Soviet bloc). China was a defacto US ally.


But dont you think that things are different now. China is not an ally but a strong competitor and India is getter ever so closer to the US.

Officer of Engineers

India might get some intelligence but by and large, the West would still stay out; mainly because India can take care of herself.

Yusuf

Well by siding India i didnt mean military help in sending forces or bombers. Diplomatically, posturing etc to keep the Chinese in check and to show that they are isolated. And yes India can take care of itself militarily.

Officer of Engineers

That would depend on the situation. I would say it would depend on who starts the fight.

Yusuf

Rest assured it will not be India who starts. History shows that we have never started a fight. Only defended.

Ray

With the current bon homie and military cohesiveness being exhibited, it is without doubt that the US will subtly cheer India against China!

The next election will be the demise of the Communists in India and both the Congress and the BJP are well in the US camp.

Yusuf

Amen to that sir.

n21

Sir,
The reports I have read so far about Cold Start all indicates that it was meant to concentrate fire power on PA ,rather than focusing on capturing important terrority.

If India is not capturing any important land area,it would mean PA does not have a justification(theoricatly) to use nuke on India/Indian forces.

Capture of land is a visible proof of defeat,while destruction of fighting capability is not something that can be easily be recognised by Pakistani public,there preventing any possible from the public on PA to use nuke.

PA will never admit that they are getting hammered by IA, would they?

n21

Any future attack by China will possiby be the only way PA would see as an oppurtunity to capture Kashmir. The current so called "friendly atmosphere",is all due to relisation by PA that with passing years, it is lossing even a remote chance it might be able to give India a fight.

A "visible" defeat woud be a PR disaster for PA in Pakistan.However they would more than glad to join in a Sino-India fight!

Yusuf

Exactly the logic of Cold Start. Inflict quick and punitive damage but prevent the other side from justifying use of nukes.
In Gujarati we say "kevai na, sehvai na" Cant tell, Cant Bear.

Ray

Capturing Kashmir by either Pakistan or India is well nigh impossible in one campaign given the terrain, economy, defence industrial backup, even if there is the political will to do so, which anyway, isn't there as far as India is concerned. India does not even have a geo political strategic roadmap!!

In all sphere, Pakistan is even worse off to wage a long campaign that can think of capturing Kashmir!

However, what can take place is substantial gains if one is determined politically or else it will be the usually biting a chunk here, biting a chunk there.

Even if China joins the fray, it will not make any significant difference since India is geared for a two front war. From the air force point of view, India has a definite advantage since her airfields are not in the High Altitude and so can carry a heavier payload in helicopters and combat aircraft. Chinese airfield in Tibet are disadvantaged and flying from mainland China will only decrease loiter time and circuit of action.

Of course, the above is very simplistically put. It has many other parameters.

WhamBam

I don't think India is even interested in any Pakistani territory and that includes the POK.

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There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don’t..