Albany Rifles

Okay, how many in service? How many have been used in combat cersus the BFV (which has seen combat into the thousands.)? WHat is its combat record against other armored vehicles?

Again the CV-90 is a pretty good vehicle but I would not give ti super higher marks over teh M2A3/M3A3.

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“When the gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers.” — Oscar Wilde

S-2

Whether it's U.S. Army infantrymen, M-2/3 Bradleys, or M-47 tanks, to date ol' Pioneer with his nineteen years of experience has yet to find anything about American equipment/troops that he rates highly.

I call B.S. on this guy until he gets to the "Introduction" thread and shares some of his worldly experience.

He's pissing me off.

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"This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski

braindead

I personally like it a lot . Will it be as successful as M2 - I doubt it . Not much mech. warfare in near future probably . But as it´s 10-15 years younger it better be better , espec. with this price tag .
BUT as you have real experience with IFV-s and I´ve only read and drool about them , our experience is not really comparable .
So far only Bradley and Warrior have seen any combat besides BMP-s . All the rest is still quite an open question .

One of my first posts here was about a CV-90 . bradley ifv mobility . That video is in post #2

wiki numbers -
Operators
Denmark - 45 CV9035 (deliveries starting 2007[3] and plans for 45 more in 2009[citation needed])
Finland - 102 CV9030FIN (57 first batch, 45 second batch)[4][5]
Netherlands - 184 CV9035 (deliveries starting 2007)[6]
Norway - 104 CV9030[7][8]
Poland - CV9040 turret for BWP-40 (BWP-1 and CV90 hybrid). Only one prototype built. [9]
Switzerland - 186 CV9030[8]
Sweden - 509 vehicles, including 42 CV9040C with additional armour.[10][11][12]

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Pioneer

I am so sorry my friend
I did not know that you were such a one eyed American patriot!

I have many good things to say about some American gear.
But that is not what the topics at hand were asking!

If you need to know, so that you can sleep better at night, let me tell you about some of them.
Oh and again it is from my ’19 years of service’ (as you like to dig at!!!) of personnel use and experience (and not just because, like many American like to think – because it has Made in the USA on it it’s the best!!)

- The PRC 77 VHF radio was a good and reliable system.
- The M1 steel helmet
- The Javelin AT missile system is great to use! (But have not used it in combat yet!)
- The M113 APC is a very reliable vehicle that leaves the ASLAV and LAV-25 for dead!
- The M198 155mm towed howitzer is a good weapon (its only because of Army bean counters, which forced us to use the Mack 6x6 truck, that it is a ***** to transport (tow)
- The venerable and RAAF workhorse C-130 Hercules
- The General Dynamics F-111 – I have rarely seen any other aircraft come in carry the weapons load that it does, so fast and low and be bang on target! (One of my biggest grips is losing the Pig!!)
- Paveway LGB
- The good old true and trusty U.S designed and built ET (Entrenching Tool)
Digs the best **** pit in minutes
- The Aim-9 Sidewinder AAM (its record speaks for itself
- The M72 66mm SRAAW (useless as an anti-armour weapon, but good to bury those in bunkers and defenses!)
- The Stinger SAM (unfortunately our army will not have a sniff of it. Some of my mates from AD Reg, love the idea of its compactness and lighter weight than the RBS-70)
- And of cause one can not be without his Dixie Tin!
- UH-1 – Old and gone, but probably the best time I have had in the back of a helo. Again another system that speaks for itself, and a helicopter that many owe their life too!!!!!!!
- CH-47 Chinook
- UH-6o Blackhawk
- M2 12.7mm MG


The flip side of this of cause is the **** American weapons that I have had to use and these are –


- The M60 GPMG – sorry it was cumbersome, fouled easy, parts rattle like hell when patrolling and a weak bipod. (Prefer the MAG-58 or MG 3).
- M16A1 /AR-15 – Early 5.56mm round crap (then again I have always thought the 5.56mm round compared to the 7.62mm round – For when I hit someone, I never want them to get up again); the weapons construction itself made for children and not ‘infantry proof! (Many American troops have told me the same!!), Loss magazines that would always drop out when needed most.
I have used the M16A2 – this is a better weapon!


My comments regarding the M47/M48 tank Vs. the Centurion tank are from both American and Australian Vietnam Vets that I have spoken to and interviewed.
The American’s were especially impressed with the way in which the Centurion could go bush and take hits from RPG-2 and RPG-7’s, when compared to their own tanks.
The American Vets that I spoke too commented that they were always happy when they knew that the Aussie would be operating with them!

My comments about the M2/M3 Bradley are again from my personal account of operating with them.
I do not like the Idea of having to split a section up into two vehicles, because that vehicle can only carry a few men each (as to with the LAV-25)
The Bradley’s height always worried us, from an infantryman’s perspective.
We could always see the Bradley’s coming, before they see us.
But often the lower M113 could sneak right up on us.
Also the heat signature of the Bradley stood out like dogs balls.
Again this is my point of view (as should be the case of Forums in a democracy!) –
Do not get me wrong – I would never say no to its firepower.

At the end of the day different countries and their industries produce some good things, but their will always be another that can do better, and that is a fact of life.
Your slant on trying to insinuate that I am anti-American is wrong, immature and frankly sad!
The way in which you are acting, reminds me of my 5-year old daughter acts like when sometimes playing dolls with her friends. If she does not get her own way or point of view she spits the dummy.
I then pack her dolls up, send her to her room.
At army I would suggest that you go to the Q-Store and be as anal as you like counting blankets and Rat packs!

At the end of the day my friend, your military (well more so the case of your Congress and defence industries lobbyists) demand for ‘Made and designed in the U.S.A’ is very detrimental to the fine Service men and women that serve that same bureaucracy!
You have found out that the after stupid amounts of expenditure and R&D that –
The M249 SAW (Belgian), M240 GPMG (Belgian), T-45 Goshawk (British), B-57 Canberra (British), L5 105mm tank gun (British), Chobham armour (British), 120 mm Rheinmetall tank gun (German), L-119 105mm Howitzer (British), Carl Gustav 84mm RCL (Sweden), Metal Storm (Australian), C-27 (Italy), AV-8A/C Harrier (British), M252 81mm Mortar, M120 120mm Mortar (Israel), Pioneer RPV (Israel)…………………… Are all to your want and needs!

Oh and as far as your comment ‘I call B.S. on this guy until he gets to the "Introduction" thread and shares some of his worldly experience.’

Well I do not piss in peoples pockets -
Married
3 Kids
Australian Army in one form or another for 19-years
Been here and there as part of the job!
Have an interest in never-built U.S military prototype aircraft
Researching into personal hero of mine – Pte Bruce Steel Kingsbury V.C of the 2/14th Battalion.

Do you want blood group???????

So let’s get on with what looks like some great Forums at WAB,
And practice what we fought the Cold War for – Individuals rights and freedom of expression please.

No personal hard feeling from me here
Hopefully the same over their my friends

Regards
Pioneer

S-2

"I did not know that you were such a one eyed American patriot!

I have many good things to say about some American gear.
But that is not what the topics at hand were asking!"


I'm not, Pioneer. In point of fact, I'm not the problem. You are.

In your very first post you HIGHLIGHTED the virtues of commonwealth infantry, ranking U.S. Marines below, and the poor sodding American army infantry off your list altogether.

An odd way of saying hello. I won't go beyond your expertise on all of our gear acquired through your extensive "interviews". That one professional oddity of yours was sufficient to suggest strongly to me that your experiences have garnered you remarkably little insight.

In retrospect, the manner in which you entered this forum is astounding. Seven years of combat under operational conditions far more varied than any forces save the British (EDIT- and the Canadians who essentially have sustained a mech-heavy battlegroup in Afghanistan), and in far greater numbers, with FAR more telling effect, suggests to me that, more than not having the real and entire picture here, Pioneer, you're actually rather clueless.

Sorry. That's just the way I see things at this forum. Hope you don't take offense.

S-2

I want to amplify on this point. Your selection of excellent infantry units is biased heavily in favor of commonwealth forces and those with some legacy of commonwealth (i.e. BRITISH) training- or so you profess. I can't believe that you'd consider the Israeli army to be today a product of a British training legacy. That's a far stretch from their operational thinking which deviated dramatically away from that legacy in 1973.

Perhaps they are excellent. None have amassed the operational expertise across the full spectrum of infantry combat to the degree that the American army and marine infantry have. None.

More Americans have fought as infantry under recent, very relevant experiences, and across a wider range of infantry-related skill-sets than any other nation- by far. Many of those American marine and army infantry officers and NCOs are now serving their third and fourth tours in war-zones. We've air-assaulted brigades 100 kms, fought in cities, humped mountains, waded swamps, killed numerous bad-guys and done so in numbers and with skill never before seen.

Bring your considered and relevant expertise to the fore as to why you shouldn't elevate the American infantry forces right to the top of your list. (EDIT: I suspect at least one former non-commonwealth, non-American NATO member infantry officer might have a thought or two about this interestingly conceived and premised list. )

"Almost every volunteer soldier is better than a conscript soldier!"

Check

"Fire-power is not always a substitute for brains and initiative!"

Grossly over-simplified fallacy.

"Afghanistan (US Coalition invasion)"

Special forces and C.I.A. Are you sure you understand what you're talking about? I'm concerned. As light a footprint to liberating a nation as you'll likely experience in your lifetime. Ah! I bet you're just aching to find a place to whisper "softly, softly".

"Operational experiences!"

That matters and you've the Germans on your list!? I like ours quite a bit more than any nation on your list for all the clearly obvious reasons heretofore mentioned.

"Most dictatorship ran Armies capability is usually more a product of
propaganda, than actual combat efficiency and capability!"

Tell that to the German army in 1939-45 or the Red Army in the same period. How about the GSFG in E. Germany in 1976 or the NKPA anytime, including now. You'll die an early death in battle with that hubritic nonsense, propaganda or otherwise.

"Many dictatorship run country's media and freedom of speech, do not give a true insight into their military's capacity!"

You will?

"- Many post-WWII established countries and their military have not fought or been involved in modern operations or war – so their metal has not been tested."

Nobody's "metal" has been more tested than our infantry. That includes Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, and Taiwan. Africa?

Modern wars? What's that? They're fighting all the time somewhere in Africa. Just not modern enough to suit your criteria?

Yeah. There's a very parochial and unprofessional bias to your list that doesn't match ground reality. It colors your credibility badly.

Pioneer, I know that this isn't necessarily the correct thread but sometimes the battle is fought on ground not appropriate. That's o.k. To put things back on course, though, perhaps you can expand on the virtues of the CV-90 to Albany Rifles. You know? He's the former U.S. Army M-2 Bradley mechanized infantry company commander who replied to your comments here and went unanswered.

"‘More to follow over’"

Save it, out.

Pioneer

Oh please S-2

With the Hundreds of fine American soldiers I have had the pleasure of serving with over the years; I must say none of them have been anything like you!
You are unbelievable.

I have sat around a many a positions or fighting pit having chats with Americans –talking unbiased about each of our good and bad points – both in a professional manner (training and debriefs) or just bloke to bloke.
Never have I had any of them jump on the band wagon so much as you. (well only after a couple of slabs of VB (Victoria Bitter) beer - and that just because yanks can not handle full strength beer - Ha ha ha )
You are clearly obsessed with yourself and your ideas

As I have repeatable stated over and over and over again!!!!!!!!!!!!!
‘It was my personal opinion’
‘From my personal experiences’

Yet on this Forum, I have been ambushed by you and some of your colleges on this Forum!
From day one
And for what?
You must think this WAB must be your own little toy or world?

If so then you should not have it on the WWW
You need to get out more, and speak to real people face to face!

I have come across enemies that have had more reason to ambush me!
But they have been my enemy and I have been theirs!
But that your choice!

My so called only crime is I entered the WAB, responded to a few Forums – speak for myself, not being critical of anyone and then – BANG!!

And fancy me having the audacity to defend myself!!

And yet you have to jump up on your soap box and start singing the Star Spangled Banner.
For what????

With your uncanny way and manner to look too deep into other peoples thought, without knowing them and then judge and sentencing them in such a public manner!
Twist and distort what people are trying to say!


I think I have worked you out S-2!
You had to have been trained in this manner!
You have to be CIA –right. Am I right?

For your way and manner of turning, twisting and manipulating people’s thoughts and what they say (and thinks goes!) has been what they have specialized in for so many decades!

Well you must have read or even wrote the Pam S-2

I am really itching at the bit to see some of my American brothers in arms, on the conclusion of my leave, and ask them if there are really people like you in their system, back home??

One thing that I could never understand or even contemplate, was those stories I had heard of or read about American’s soldiers FRAGGING their own officers in the field!
Wow I just think I know how and why they could do it.

S-2 I would gladly buy you a beer some time if you are in OZ, or in a Mess.
But if you use one hand to shack mine, and slap me with the other – well you better learn how to eat with your feet.

P.S. I Apologies to all other members for my tone and sarcasm on this Forum
But I have always been taught to respect other, and to be courteous.
I have not received this from some. I am truly sorry
The best defence is offence



A shocked and amazed
Return me to active duty - for at least I know who is my enemy and my true mates are!
Pioneer

S-2

"Oh please S-2

... BANG!!

"One thing that I could never understand or even contemplate, was those stories I had heard of or read about American’s soldiers FRAGGING their own officers in the field!
Wow I just think I know how and why they could do it."

So I'm worth fragging for my argument with you? Interesting retort but I'll not worry about it among American troops-

"I have sat around a many a positions or fighting pit having chats with Americans –talking unbiased about each of our good and bad points – both in a professional manner (training and debriefs) or just bloke to bloke."

Share your list with them, did you? Somehow I sense that it's there that my defense lies.

No. You've had ample opportunity to address my comments about the operational and tactical acumen of American marine and army infantry. They're very recent and relevant combat record speaks volumes for the errors of your mis-perceptions.

It's not wrapping myself in an American flag, Pioneer. It's stating a bald, professional fact. Since December, 1988 in Panama until now, the combat experiences of the American infantrymen have been acquired and absorbed by large numbers of professional infantry officers and N.C.O.s that dwarf your cumulative Australian experience over the same period.

There's simply no comparison. Have you dropped an airborne BRIGADE at night into battle anytime recently? Air-assaulted a brigade of infantry 100kms in five hours? Fought in Najef, Fallujah, Ramadi, Mosul in some of the most intense MOUT operations conducted since Hue? How about hump the MOUNTAINS of eastern Afghanistan against the best that A.Q. and the Taliban can offer?

Conducted any mechanized operations lately besides driving from the motor pool to the training complex? We have. Employed corps of troops to do so. Twice.

In effect, Pioneer, you've slapped sh!t on the wall and are trolling without any qualitative substantiation of your provocative stances.

No. You're really way off base, avoiding the critical issues, and by alluding to my fragging at the hands of American troops, going well beyond the bounds.

Are you calling for mods?

Please do.

Officer of Engineers

Pioneer,

Thus far, you have raised the eyebrows of four officers from 3 different countries. You've came to this forum challenging our points and when we responded with proof and links, you've responded with half **** opinions with no supporting data and certainly no links.

We've directly challenged your assertions and you have been found wanting. We have provided proof that your positions are ill founded and you come back with these idiotic horse droppings about fragging American officers that I found that for a man of your experience that you automatically did not dismissed since it is more than a damned breach of discipline.

You keep bringing up your own experience and your own opinion which frankly is extremely lacking. The M113 is better than the LAV-IIIs? On what planet? A rusted out thin-skinned track is better than newly designed armoured wheeled?

Although you've not stated, the mere fact that you're still a pioneer after 19 years raises my eyebrows to no end. You should be a CSM or even a RSM by now. At best, you're a troop warrant without experience in Europe and you're trying to tell us about the Soviets?

And did you actually study those things you've stated? Like the Bradley or the 1973 Arab-Israeli War? I found it hard to believe that you actually think 1 single squadron (Sharon's) that made the breach in that war can be measured against both Von Manstein and Zhukov's efforts at Kursk.

We have not made it personal here. You have. You made these points using your own experience as reference. We have therefore, challenged both your points and by extension, your experience.

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Chimo

glyn

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Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.

GraniteForge

I agree that the M240 and MG3 are both fine guns (although I like the slower cyclic rate of the MG74), but I have not found the M60 to be especially cumbersome when compared with them. Neither have I found it to foul "easily," or have a weak bipod. I put a long belt through an M60 last night just to refresh my experience, from the bipod, off the shoulder, and on the move, and yes, its still a fine machine gun. It wasn't badly fouled afterwards, either, and I was using some relatively dirty ammo.

Good luck with that. When I was young, I met a German who had been struck by a Soviet 76.2 mm solid shot AT round. He lost his arm and part of the shoulder, survived the end of the war, and went on to US service. I met him in a VA Hospital, after his retirement.

Based on my experience, I sometimes think of the M249 as the modern Chauchaut. They never run well, and often don't run at all. The magazine-feed feature is more theoretical than useful. There have been some improvements over time, but I still don't want to shoot one, because of all the maintenance that each trigger pull generates.

As to "Metal Storm:" They may actually have a product one day, but today is not the day. Considering that this concept has been worked on off and on since the 1700s, I am not holding my breath.

Gun Grape

Yea, unless you wanted to talk on the damn thing. And god forbid you want to do it secure. It was a bigger POS than the PRC-25
( and for you "Old Salts", yes I know the basic radio is the same)

Great for shaving and field baths. Not worth a crap for protecting your noggin

The standard fare from someone that doesn't know what they are talking about.

From reading some of your other post I think your a poser

Albany Rifles

Still waiting to hear about all of the combat time of the almighty CV-90.

Albany Rifles

CEASE FIRE FREEZE!!!! CEASE FIRE FREEZE!!!

WE ARE ARGUING WITH A DISCIPILE OF MIKE SPARKS!!!!!

My position?

What Ess Deuce said.

Rifleman

Would it not also be fair to say that Panama went as well as it did because the Grenada experience was absorbed by large numbers of professional infantry officers and NCOs?

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"Aim small, miss small." - Benjamin Martin in The Patriot