Hors de combat question

Silent Hunter · 02-02-2008, 09:00 AM

Am I right in thinking that feigning hors de combat status is a war crime?

So, those people in fiction who pretend to be dead until the enemy stands above them, then attacks them are doing something illegal?

T_igger_cs_30 · 02-02-2008, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Hunter

Am I right in thinking that feigning hors de combat status is a war crime?

So, those people in fiction who pretend to be dead until the enemy stands above them, then attacks them are doing something illegal?

"Hors de combat" literally means "out of fight" its a French term used in diplomatic and international law to refer to soldiers, sailors and airmen who are incapable of performing there military duties for whatever reason.

just google it lots of info , as for your question about doing something illegal, I do not think so, but cannot find at this time a definitive

ofogs · 02-02-2008, 09:40 AM

But a ruse is allowable. Plus, as soon as they begin their hostile act, they are acting as a combatant. So, I want to say it's not illegal, especially that the burden of ensuring they are incapacitated is that of their enemy. It may not be fair, but, if you're in a fair fight, you did something wrong to begin with.

Of course, the likely recourse from the side that falls victim to such a trick would be to ensure, in future encounters, everybody is dead and incapacitated, so there could be some second and third order effects that would range from unpleasant to really unpleasant depending on their level of brutality.

Silent Hunter · 02-02-2008, 09:54 AM

The 1977 Geneva Protocols state that this is perfidy, ergo a war crime. Was it in the past?

T_igger_cs_30 · 02-02-2008, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Hunter

The 1977 Geneva Protocols state that this is perfidy, ergo a war crime. Was it in the past?

Since when was it a war crime to decieve ? deception is a big part of war

Silent Hunter · 02-02-2008, 10:25 AM

Ruses and deception are still permissible- Geneva states that, but not that one. For the reason that it would make things worse for those were really injured (the enemy would just shoot wounded on sight).

T_igger_cs_30 · 02-02-2008, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Hunter

Ruses and deception are still permissible- Geneva states that, but not that one. For the reason that it would make things worse for those were really injured (the enemy would just shoot wounded on sight).

Still a hard one to prove in the "fog of war"

sappersgt · 02-02-2008, 15:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ofogs

Of course, the likely recourse from the side that falls victim to such a trick would be to ensure, in future encounters, everybody is dead and incapacitated, so there could be some second and third order effects that would range from unpleasant to really unpleasant depending on their level of brutality.

Exactly. After you lose a few men you don't take anymore chances.

ofogs · 02-03-2008, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Hunter

The 1977 Geneva Protocols state that this is perfidy, ergo a war crime. Was it in the past?

Well, I stand corrected. I would think that the addition of it explicitly in 1977 indicates it was an oft used trick in the past. That's why you learn to clear weapons off bodies as you sweep objectives and to do checks to make sure they're really dead (eye thumps, knee to the groin, etc).

I'm also sure the right attorney would split hairs and argue that as long as you weren't faking wounds, and just lying there like you were dead but with a weapon, you are still a combatant. Don't know if it would fly, though.

02-02-2008, 09:00 AM	#1 (permalink)
Silent Hunter Contributor Join Date: 08-09-07 Location: London, UK Posts: 500 Country:	Hors de combat question Am I right in thinking that feigning hors de combat status is a war crime? So, those people in fiction who pretend to be dead until the enemy stands above them, then attacks them are doing something illegal?

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02-02-2008, 09:40 AM	#3 (permalink)
ofogs *Military Professional* Join Date: 09-27-07 Location: Iraq Posts: 67 Country:	But a ruse is allowable. Plus, as soon as they begin their hostile act, they are acting as a combatant. So, I want to say it's not illegal, especially that the burden of ensuring they are incapacitated is that of their enemy. It may not be fair, but, if you're in a fair fight, you did something wrong to begin with. Of course, the likely recourse from the side that falls victim to such a trick would be to ensure, in future encounters, everybody is dead and incapacitated, so there could be some second and third order effects that would range from unpleasant to really unpleasant depending on their level of brutality.

02-02-2008, 09:54 AM	#4 (permalink)
Silent Hunter Contributor Join Date: 08-09-07 Location: London, UK Posts: 500 Country:	The 1977 Geneva Protocols state that this is perfidy, ergo a war crime. Was it in the past?

02-02-2008, 10:25 AM	#6 (permalink)
Silent Hunter Contributor Join Date: 08-09-07 Location: London, UK Posts: 500 Country:	Ruses and deception are still permissible- Geneva states that, but not that one. For the reason that it would make things worse for those were really injured (the enemy would just shoot wounded on sight).

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