Tronic

T6 is derivative of Arjun? Links? And, Can you tell me the difference between the Arjun and the Bhim? They are entirely different class of weapons mate.

DENEL, Elbit, IAI, Lockheed Martin, Dassault, and a whole list of other international defense companies have been very active in India, providing technical know-how where and when needed, it is no secret. But if that makes a system non-indegineous, then just how much indegineous do you think these new rifles and that Turkish turret you keep talking about are?

DRDO for the entire Arjun project, but for the turret, more specifically, CVRDE.

If they were all "joint-ventures", then all these weapons and the Indian defense industry would have been sunk during sanctions, my friend.

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Khan_Han

Tronic

Khan,



No, wrong again mate. India had approached the British ages ago to jointly develop a composite armour, the British refused and went on to develop the Chobbam. Arjun's Kanchan armour is a totally different project which uses different composites then the Chobbam armour.

The Fire Control System on the Arjun is the BE (Bharat Electronics) AL-4421 Mk.1B Digital FCS. Bharat Electronics is an Indian company, not Spanish.

As for the whole FCS package like laser rangefinders, ballistic computers, sensors, etc etc; that is the child of IRDE.

I'll give you that. India still does not have its own engine to place in the Arjun, but work is going on at CVRDE to produce a 1500hp engine for it. (I think the Germans refuse to sell the 1500hp engines they have in the Leo2).

Khan, no one is denying;



[btw, my mistake, CVRDE is not responsible for Arjun's turret, it is ARDE (Armament Research & Development Establishment)]

Anyways mate, Don't know how the discussion went from discussing turrets to the nuts and bolts of the Arjun, but I think that is enough of this thread hijack. If you want to discuss anything on the Arjun, feel free to PM me. btw, I'd be very interested to know what sources you are using for your info.

Funny, that is the same thing Indian leaders were dreaming of 30 years ago; the problem is not money, the problem is time. I have no doubts that Turkey can develop a 100% Turkish MBT, but for that, it will take quite a lot of time without any external know how. Maybe they can look at Indian projects and learn from our delays, when India was placed under sanctions, a lot of the components on the Arjun and more specifically the LCA had to be home-built. A simple thing like the landing gear which would take a few months to develop turned into years of development without any technical know how. Other countries have already gone through the process of building and making mistakes and then refining them. For you to do the same, you are looking at decades of development experience. However, I doubt that Turkish government is that naive; maybe that is why they choose to look at German turrets rather then go on, on their own?

troung

Ok the scope is Canadian - BTW with a rail system the scopes and backup sights can be changed.

They didn't reinvent the ****ing wheel here...

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Big K

i am not a pro. about rifles but it doesnt look a new rifle...quite similar to m16/m4's isnt it?

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Khan_Han

The butt is different too and so are the mechanisms...

MKEK will manufacture 1.2 million units of this rifle over a period of 6 years. The first batch of 300,000 units is expected to enter service within 12 months.

-{SpoonmaN}-

I'm afraid I don't see a lot of evidence of new design in the picture, since most of those mods and optics can be mail-ordered from Soldier Of Fortune magazine.

However the internal workings may be different I don't know.

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ace16807

It's probably modeled off the HK-416 aesthetically, but internal, meh. I don't know about that. Can't say it's indigenous unless the internal workings are really something new and effective.

troung

If one opens it up it is either an HK-416 or M-4/M-16...

Not really inventing fire here...

AK Fan

Nothing strange. MKEK has a many years of producing H&K small arms (assault rifles, machine guns etc) by licence behind it. Now they think they are grown-up enough to start up their own production based of course on their previous experience of learning from H&K.

omon

i doubt internals are any different, from hk or m4, they even kept forward assist, so nothing new.
anyone who claims they are, post internal schematic,

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gunnut

You forgot about Japan and South Korea.

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gunnut

So it's a derivative of the M-4, which is a derivative of the M-16, which was a modified AR-15 designed by Eugene Stoner. Many countries have done that. There are even M-4 derivatives with the buffer spring moved to the top of the rifle so it could be fitted with a folding stock.

I would like to see this rifle's inside, especially the recoil mechanism to see which branch it belongs to.

Khan_Han

HK-416


Mehmetcik-1 (With some other Turkish made Snipers etc)


MKEK of Turkey, has stated that there has been cooperation with H&K (The German company which manufactures the HK-416) regarding the ergonomics of the rifle design. The bolts, mechanism etc are a Turkish design.

I am trying to get some pictures of these parts.

K Mehta

well it does seem to be inspired by the features of HK-416. Nice looking.